Sikkens Autowave trouble.
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Hey everyone, Just have a few questions for those of you who are using the Autowave product. Our shop has been spraying this for the past 2 years without any issues whatsoever. Recently, we are getting a few comebacks due to the paint starting to peel or wrinkle around any trim that is bolted on such as door handles and the odd moldings. We are only noticing this on Silver colored vehicles, 4 cars came back so far this month with the same problem. Example. 2 months ago I painted a 2010 GMC Canyon complete and it was completly stripped down to bare bones, we painted it and re-assembled it with no problem, a week later the customer came back informing me his paint was “bubbling” around his door handles, I removed the door handles and found it was wrinkling. We called our paint rep and he came in and recommended using hardener in the basecoat, so we did. Not even 2 days later the truck was back with the exact same problem. It is almost like the “basecoat” was still wet, because I could actually move the clearcoat by pushing on it with my finger. But we went through all the proper steps, the basecoat was tacked off before clearing (so it was obviously dry. This happened to me on 4 different vehicles all silver. And it has the guys at Akzo Nobel stumpped. There are 3 other shops in our area that are having the same problem.
Are we the only ones? It is not actually a peeling problem, its more like the basecoat is not drying properly, I stripped one panel with a razor blade and the base/clear was really rubbery and flexable and almost seemed like it never cured.
Hope to get some feedback. Cheers Nick
I just got a bulletin about putting on the basecoat to heavy due to not enough reduction.They are suggesting now with metallics and pearls to go 30-40% so you will have a thinner coat of paint that flashes faster due to being thinner no matter what the RH is.What % are you reducing?Apparently AW can skin over if you are blasting the crap out of it with air,so this could be part of the problem.Was the proper flash time used in regards to sealer,base,clear application?How long are you waiting before assembly?Are you baking your jobs?Do you use air blowers?Just a hunch,can’t say I have had that problem in the last 2.5 yrs we have been using it,we average 50-65 cars a week.
switch to enviro. :exci :stoned
Jayson, Once we were done basing the truck, the air blowers sat on for 2+ hours before we cleared it. The Sikkens rep plus another guy from there lab were at my shop giving us recommendations and were in the paint booth while we re-sprayed the truck (for the 3rd time). The last time we re did the truck it was comletly stripped to bare metal, did everything right out of the book. We dryed the base for at least 2 hours with air dryers, PLUS baked it after the fact just to be sure all the moisture was out, Then I took a tack rag and rubbed the crap out of it just to make sure it was dry all over and our Rep said it was all good to go before we cleared it. The truck sat for 3 days before re-assembly.
I have been spraying Akzo Nobel products since 1997 and never encountered a problem like this. It is only in Silver colored vehicles I seen it happen on, 2 GM vehicles, a Hyundai code and a Mercedes. I was thinking it may be the 666 Binder, just because these toners are 50% at least with the binder.
Overall, Akzo has been good about it. They covered the cost of the re-dos and supplied a rental car for our customers while they tried to figure out our issue. The thing that scares me is it happened to 3 other shops in our area. We are crossing our fingers it may have been a bad batch.
Cheers, 50-65 cars a week eh, good stuff. We are almost there, but our shop is only 3000 square feet so there is only enough time in the day, haha
Very interesting indeed,been spraying sikkens since 88.Keep us posted,but it sounds to me like you might have had a bad clear hardener or something.doesn’t sound base related.
We have had no peeling problems w/ autowave. Keep us posted would like to know if its a base problem or clear issue.
10 Cars a day?????? :woohoo:
Where is this and can I have a job?
Is it flat rate?
How many guys? :exci
[quote=”NICK PERRY” post=21898]Jayson, Once we were done basing the truck, the air blowers sat on for 2+ hours before we cleared it. The Sikkens rep plus another guy from there lab were at my shop giving us recommendations and were in the paint booth while we re-sprayed the truck (for the 3rd time). The last time we re did the truck it was comletly stripped to bare metal, did everything right out of the book. We dryed the base for at least 2 hours with air dryers, PLUS baked it after the fact just to be sure all the moisture was out, Then I took a tack rag and rubbed the crap out of it just to make sure it was dry all over and our Rep said it was all good to go before we cleared it. The truck sat for 3 days before re-assembly.
I have been spraying Akzo Nobel products since 1997 and never encountered a problem like this. It is only in Silver colored vehicles I seen it happen on, 2 GM vehicles, a Hyundai code and a Mercedes. I was thinking it may be the 666 Binder, just because these toners are 50% at least with the binder.
Overall, Akzo has been good about it. They covered the cost of the re-dos and supplied a rental car for our customers while they tried to figure out our issue. The thing that scares me is it happened to 3 other shops in our area. We are crossing our fingers it may have been a bad batch.
Cheers, 50-65 cars a week eh, good stuff. We are almost there, but our shop is only 3000 square feet so there is only enough time in the day, haha[/quote]
Two hours, a little excessive no? lol
and 65 cars a week is pretty decent, the shop im at right now does approx 45+ on average per week.
you know when we switched to enviro, we had to get their new sealers for that line, the old sealers wouldn’t work with the new base. i was told that the base wouldn’t bit to the sealer as well. maybe it could be the sealer and the base isn’t getting any bite.
i wouldn’t think that the base still haveing moisture would casue it, the few times that i have cleared enviro that was still a little wet, the only thing it would do was dye back.
but i will admit this is interesting. but i don’t think we’ll find out the problem.
The “experts” narrowed it down to moisture being trapped in the base coat (which is a crock o crap to me) and told us to start adding hardners to our base coats until they confirm this is the issure. By using hardner in the basecoat is making silvers/golds difficult to spray as it thinkens up the product making it “mottle” and look like crap!! Right now, this is where we are standing on this issue. I personally think it was a bad batch of 666 which they dont want to admit. Once we striped the hood, it felt like the base coat was turning into a rubber, almost like there is a ton of flex additive in the paint. very wierd situation!
[quote=”NICK PERRY” post=22156]The “experts” narrowed it down to moisture being trapped in the base coat (which is a crock o crap to me) and told us to start adding hardners to our base coats until they confirm this is the issure. By using hardner in the basecoat is making silvers/golds difficult to spray as it thinkens up the product making it “mottle” and look like crap!! Right now, this is where we are standing on this issue. I personally think it was a bad batch of 666 which they dont want to admit. Once we striped the hood, it felt like the base coat was turning into a rubber, almost like there is a ton of flex additive in the paint. very wierd situation![/quote]
Sounds like they put BASF tints in your sikkens cans :rofl :rofl :rofl[quote=”lild” post=21936]you know when we switched to enviro, we had to get their new sealers for that line, the old sealers wouldn’t work with the new base. i was told that the base wouldn’t bit to the sealer as well. maybe it could be the sealer and the base isn’t getting any bite.
i wouldn’t think that the base still haveing moisture would casue it, the few times that i have cleared enviro that was still a little wet, the only thing it would do was dye back.
but i will admit this is interesting. but i don’t think we’ll find out the problem.[/quote]
Man if my paint rep was blatantly lying to my face like that I’d be pretty pissed off. Global sealers were the standard to go under EHP until they released a low VOC sealer. I have no doubt The products are compatible.
[quote=”dcturcotte” post=22159][quote=”lild” post=21936]you know when we switched to enviro, we had to get their new sealers for that line, the old sealers wouldn’t work with the new base. i was told that the base wouldn’t bit to the sealer as well. maybe it could be the sealer and the base isn’t getting any bite.
i wouldn’t think that the base still haveing moisture would casue it, the few times that i have cleared enviro that was still a little wet, the only thing it would do was dye back.
but i will admit this is interesting. but i don’t think we’ll find out the problem.[/quote]
Man if my paint rep was blatantly lying to my face like that I’d be pretty pissed off. Global sealers were the standard to go under EHP until they released a low VOC sealer. I have no doubt The products are compatible.[/quote]
we were useing das sealer, then they came out with the new ecs enviro sealers. and i can tell you they are a whole world of a differenace between the two. so they weren’t lying to me. they were in the process of producing the new sealer. and i never used any of the gobal products, so i don’t know if those sealers are different from the das sealers.well thats weird i have bin spayin autowave for 2.5 year and never had that problem
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