Andy Taylor
Forum Replies Created
- Posts
[quote=”gtome” post=29691]78 degrees here right now. jast sayin! :dnc[/quote]
😛
According to the weather forecast we’ll be starting the day at 36F and climbing to the dizzy heights of 43F :deadhorse
[quote=”gtome” post=29664]I agree that some will have peel, most in fact. But to say laying primer flat has “no advantages” is silly. Especially when it comes to the final primer. If the coats are good and even, you’ve blocked it out well before the last prime, it is simply less work to sand a flatter finish. For instance, I sprayed some parts with a 4:1:1 reduced final primer. Sprayed very flat. And I sprayed some 4:1 primer, and it was pretty flat, but not like the 4:1:1. Obviously grabbing some 600 grit wet paper and going at it, I will finish the 4:1:1 much sooner simply because its less work to knock down. And to me, there is some value in less sanding.
Now if I can learn to spray my clear a little better I will be in business![/quote]
I can see where you’re going with that if you are double priming. I rarely bother as it’s too much extra time and effort (and should be unnecessary), but if I do I like to get plenty of build on the first cycle so I can block it back nice and flat. Smooth isn’t always flat.
On the second priming cycle I will use a more reduced primer as I should only be filling fine sanding scratches and maybe the odd break-through. This second round shold only need minimum sanding so I’ll agree there is some gain to be had from a smoother application. However, if we’re talking about poly (slick sand etc) then we’re not discussing final primers.
As for tip size on primer guns you could always buy the biggest one you think you’ll need and wind it in a bit for less viscous stuff 🙂
[quote=”gtome” post=29658]1.6 for heavy stuff? That seems a little small for heavy stuff?[/quote]
I suppose it depends on what we mean by heavy stuff. I should have been more clear.
The Debeer 2K high build I was using for the past few years recommended 1.3 – 1.8. I found 1.6 to be just right for general priming. It also worked well with their unreduced epoxy. For really heavy stuff like poly then I’d definitely go bigger, like a 2.0, although I used to manage well enough with an Iwata W400 with a 1.8. For sealer (non-sanding primer) or reduced epoxy I’d use the same W400 with either a 1.3 or 1.4.
I have a PRi 1.6 that I use for the heavy stuff. I’m happy with it 🙂
I’ve sent Dave a text and he says he’ll ring you on Monday.
Wheelrite booth does the job well enough as long as the filters are clear. I inherited this van from another guy and it was so blocked up there was virtually no extraction. I’ve cleaned it out and it’s much better now, although it could do with the carbon canister changing. Pretty sure I could knock something together myself with MDF, fiberglass and an extractor fan for much less money though 😆
Xchaser – I think I’ve linked to the clear in a previous post. It’s nothing special, just cheap 😆
Mostly I’m using my own LPH80 for base. It’s a mini gun but is quite capable of doing full panels when needed. For clear on small areas I’m using a work supplied Deltalyo DL2000WB. Not great but it does the job. For bigger areas I’m using my own WS400 but it soon empties the tank of the compressor! I’m on the lookout for an LVLP gun at the minute. Since most jobs need polishing to remove the dust I can live with a gun that doesn’t produce quite as good a finish in trade off for less air consumption and overspray.
DC – I’m just running a mini scheme on the van, supplied by work. It’s Sikkens Autowave but re-packaged by a SMART repair company called Ayce Systems into 250ml bottles. I have loads of Ayce gear on the van including one of their alloy wheel refurb machines (wheelrite pro), a wheelrite pro spray booth and a UV curing oven.
If you’re looking for a full sized scheme I’d highly recommend you check out DeBeer 900+ (water). Bang on the money for quality vs value in my opinion. If you need a contact try my mates Dave Leverton, technical training guy at Carlac in Leeds, or Peter Moore, technical guy at DeBeer / Valspar / HOK based in Doncaster. I’ve got their mobile numbers if you want them, just tell them I sent you – Andy Taylor from The Car People (my previous employer) 😉
[quote=”Jayson M” post=29625]I get a kick out of guys saying it will put the primer on like glass,really?? who cares you are going to sand it anyway :wak :rofl :rofl
[/quote]I don’t know about you, but I find a bit of texture on a high build primer makes it easier to sand anyway. Knocking the hard top surface off is much easier than if it’s totally flat.
Thanks Jayson.
DC – if you look back through this thread you’ll see I’ve already voiced my concerns over the effects of this cold temperature on the products. In particular the Autowave base. I’m intending to build an insulated storage box but haven’t got around to it yet as I’ve got so many other projects on. I do car audio fabrication as a hobby so it’ll be a breeze to knock together a decent box and I’ve got some slabs of 1″ Kingspan lying around to line it.
Whilst I’d never suggest anyone goes against a manufacturers tech sheet for storage temps or anything else, I have been surprised at how well the Autowave copes with the cold. At sub-zero (frozen buckets of water in the van) it goes like a gel, but after warming up it reverts back to a liquid and sprays just the same. Again, it’s not something I’d recommend but it seems to cope much better than other water borne products I’ve used.
I remember sending a batch of Lechler back to my supplier after opening the first tin. It had the consistency of rice pudding and nothing would rescue it. It turns out it was left over the weekend in the back of a delivery van as the temperature dropped well below freezing. After that they shipped and stored all of my products in the original insulated cartons 🙂
Thanks for the comments guys, just doing what needs to be done 🙂
To answer some of your questions in order – I haven’t had any failures yet, but I am expecting some when the weather warms up. If there is any moisture left in the base I’m guessing it will “sweat” once the sun gets on the panel, possibly causing de-lamination. I’ve done the best I can but time will tell….
For getting stuff dry I first try and warm the panel up with a 12″ IR lamp. Easy enough on a single panel job like this but impossible when doing several jobs around a car. The base gets blown dry with a combination of a hot air gun (lots of heat, some airflow) and a salon style hair dryer (lots of airflow, some heat). I look like something from the Wild West toting my twin guns 😆 If I’ve had to put more than 2 coats of base on for a low hiding colour I’ll give it some time with the IR lamp too, although I can’t have all three on at once or it overloads the electric supply on the van and blows the fuses.
The clear gets flashed off with the hot air gun to get it to a dust free stage as quickly as possible, then finished off with the IR.
No damage on this one, just a 2″ scratch down to the metal, so a quick easy job really.
I had to paint it outside as the customer was waiting for it and I had a bigger job already in the tent (Full front and rear bumpers, dented OSR quarter panel, mirror cover, and one alloy wheel).
It wouldn’t be fair to say how much I charged as it’s all internal work. If we charged lots we’d only be making money out of our own company which doesn’t really help anybody. To give you an idea though I’d need to do at least 5 of those a day to earn my full wage. Easy in the summer, but no so easy when it’s below freezing and I even have to warm the base up to get it through the strainers!!!
[IMG]http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn385/Duluxdude/Work/IMAG0091Medium.jpg[/IMG]
I thought I’d add a quick picture of a little job I did yesterday. Nothing special, just blow a bit of base in the centre of the door and clear the panel, but bear in mind the picture is taken exactly where I painted it and look at the white stuff in the background.
[IMG]http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/nn385/Duluxdude/Work/IMAG0093.jpg[/IMG]
It’s been pretty cold here for a while so last weeks snow hasn’t even melted yet, and I’m painting outside in this :woohoo: It did start snowing just after this picture was taken but luckily the panel had started to dry a bit so the flakes didn’t mark it too much.
Hi mate, I’m just down the road in Sheffield :welc
Oh, and looking for a job working back in a booth… :whistle:
Good stuff Jayson 🙂
I like seeing peoples faces the first time they see water base applied. Some look like they’re going to have a fit at the colour difference when goes on 😆
Thanks Ryan. At least I understand the 2.1 bit now 🙂
Tbar – I never managed to get any of the DeBeer clears to pop, unlike one of the ICI/NEXA ones I used (maybe 6690?) which was prone for it.
We did some test jobs with the tech guy as we had to use a fish eye additive due to how our operation was set up (long story), so we played about quite a bit to make sure everything was compatible. Even doing an overload test on their speed clear (hammering on 3 wet coats with no flash in between, then straight into the bake oven at 80C for 20 min) there was no popping. Quite an impressive run, but no popping! :rofl
Things are rated differently over here so I don’t even know what a 2.1voc clear is 😆 I’m guessing it’s an indication of a low voc rated product, a bit like our “420” rating. Basically clears need to have a voc content of 420 grammes/litre or less to be compliant. There are exceptions, but on the whole that’s how it goes.
I have used 2 such clears from DeBeer plus a non-compliant one, but again I’m sure they are packaged differently in other countries so it would be hard for me to compare exact products. I haven’t used a bad one though so there’s every chance the ones you get will be good too.
Chip box was quite comprehensive as I mention above. There were sprayed chips for all of the standard shades and main variants. The computer system does sometimes contain field variants though, for which there aren’t any chips. These were generally one-off formulations for a rogue car, done out in the field, so unlikely to pop up often. They do include an indication of how they differ from the standard shade though (i.e. lighter, bluer, etc) so can sometimes be worth a look if you’re struggling.