Andy Taylor
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Nope.
I don’t mind admitting that I don’t it right every single time, but then I have to work at such a pace that my only option is to “throw it on and hope for the best” :S
Following on from what bondomerchant said above – I use an Iwata W400WBX for my base, and was struggling a bit with blends, so had a play with a SATA NR that one of my guys has. I found that to be so much better than the Iwata, but after a few jobs I worked out why. The SATA seems to put out a lot less material than the WBX, despite having the same 1.3 tip. I went back to my own gun and turned the fluid needle in quite a long way, and it’s more than a match for his SATA now. It’s slowed me down a little, but the jobs look so much better for it 🙂
You can go straight on after tacking, it’s only after wiping down with any sort of cleaner that you need to wait a while, just to make sure they’ve fully dissapeared.
[b]Jimmo[/b] – Going back to the gun question, you might want to ask Devilbiss customer support to explain page one of the GTi operation manual. Especially this part:
[quote]Important: These spray guns are suitable for use with both water-based and solvent-based materials. The design ~ blah blah blah ~. Nozzles and needles are manufactured in stainless steel ~ blah blah ~[/quote]
I think they were just trying to get you to buy a new gun buddy 😉
Hi Rob,
I started out as a smart repairer so know exactly where you’re coming from. Do what I did and make the transition into a nice warm booth, it’s a piece of P… in comparison 😉
Admittedly I’ve never sprayed autowave, but I’ve never used a WB that recommends a full wet coat straight off. Usually a light dust coat is applied first to eliminate craters and streaks, followed by a full wet coat or two once it’s flashed. My initial dust coat is so light that you can hardly see it on the panel, but if you were to wipe it with your finger, it would indeed feel wet. I’ll blow that off with the gun for a few seconds (it’s so thin it dries almost straight away) Then pile on the wet coats.
As said, these wet coats should be really wet (I generally use the double header technique – one wet coat followed immediately by another), and usually look terrible when applied, but sort themselves out once dry.
I’ll then do a medium coat if I need it, or more usually move straight on to a drop / control coat.
It might not be ‘by the book’ for some bases, but if you’ve got chance to experiment, give it a go and see what you think. I agree with Jason though – you need to forget most of what you know about spraying base, and learn a whole new set of tricks. Personally I wouldn’t want to got back to solvent as WB is so forgiving once you get the hang of it, just as quick in my experience, and you can abuse it more without it biting you on the ass 🙂
[b]bondomerchant wrote:[/b]
[quote] ive even heard about one guy getting harassed over throwing his old paint strainers in the trash :blink: [/quote]
Yep.Over here we need to have sealed containers for throwing our paint slops in; they go through the roof if any tins with any kind of solvent are found without sealed lids; and even the rags we’ve used with solvent W&G have to be moved immediately after use to a suitable container in an air controlled environment (normally a spray booth with extraction filters) until they have fully dried out. Only then can they be thrown in the trash.
I am also personally liable for a £10,000 fine if I’m found spraying any solvent containing material in the shop (outside the booth). Taking that to the extreme even a quick squirt of rattle can adhesion promoter or a tiny bit of rub through primer on a sliver of bare metal could cost me a whole lot of money!
We have no problems with dried paint on masking though, it’s just anything ‘wet’ that could release solvents into the atmosphere in an uncontrolled manner.
[b]jimmo wrote:[/b]
[quote].how goods your source on the info out of curiousity Andy?[/quote]
No source as such Jimmo, and if I’m wrong I apologise, but I’ve interchanged parts between the GTI and the GTI-W with no issues, and I’ve never had any problems using the non -W gun with water borne (nor have any of the painters I’ve ever worked with). Maybe some of the internal valve parts are made of a different material, but normally these wouldn’t be exposed to water anyway.I’d always recommended thoroughly drying out any gun once it’s been cleaned with water though. I’ve been a bit lax in that department with my W400WBX, and even though all Iwata’s are supposed to be fully WB compatible, it has suffered some corrosion and pitting internally, and the fluid nozzle adjustment screw is just about shot.
So as I say – no source or any way of backing up what I said, but I’ve never heard of anyone having any problems after using a regular GTI with water borne base.
Jimmo – I’d never go back from using the PPS system, but as said you don’t have to use it (or any other similar system) if you don’t want to. And again as said, the finer screens/filters are recommended (I use 125 micron ones). I won’t get too techie about it, but water base can have a hell of a lot of lumps in it.
A standard GTI [b]gun[/b] will be fine for WB, but what you don’t want to do is keep switching that gun between water and solvent all the time. One for each is the way to go.
The set up of that gun is quite product dependant though. Many manufacturers recommend the #115 air cap for water base, which comes as standard on the GTI-W. The only other difference with the GTI-W is it’s colour. It’s a lighter blue so you can tell it apart from your solvent guns. Some brands favour the #110 Trans tech cap (assuming you guys get the same caps as us in the UK), so it’s best to check with your particular paint company, or try them out yourself.
Well Ryan’s covered everything extremely well, but I’ll add my bit too if you don’t mind 🙂
1) If it’s clean, it’s clean, so won’t need any major work to convert over to water borne. I use an aqueous detergent solution in my gunwash machine for most of my cleaning, then finish off with DeBeer WB gun cleaner, which I believe is some kind of water/alcohol mix.
2) Exactly like Ryan, I’ve used the Devilbiss lube and it works fine, but I generally use a clear mineral oil.
3) We use a solvent based cleaner during prep (DeBeer silicon remover), then a water based cleaner for a final wipe down in the booth just before spraying. It’s really important that you used both types, as each will remove it’s own set of contaminants
4) I’ve found blending quite different with the various types of WB I’ve used. Once you get the hang of it I think it’s easier than solvent, but I don’t really flick at the edge. Have a look on YouTube for “shopsmart debeer fade out”, which shows you the method used with my particular brand.
5) A good flow of warm air is much better than just heat, so a hairdryer should do the trick, although it’ll be slow on larger jobs.
[b]nick@dunsdale wrote:[/b]
[quote]If you go to close you can separate the base coat :blush:[/quote]
Oh yes, I’ve seen that done before!If I’m blowing hand held I’ll stay back for 30 seconds or so until the base has flashed a little, then get in close – blowing [i]across[/i] the panel – to dry it really quickly.
Nick – have you ever tried the WindJet type blowers? Yellow, flat, and fan shaped, a bit like a ducks foot, lol. I had one for a while (until someone ran over it!) and they really do work well. Small enough to stick in your pocket too, so it’s always handy.
EDIT: Like this:
[img]http://www.expresspaints.co.uk/catalog/images/TOOXM110.gif[/img]
[b]ryanbrown999 wrote:[/b]
[quote] Cheap ones work good also but were louder.[/quote]
Hell I’m half deaf in one ear so I can’t tell the difference :lol1Two years working at a bench in the same corner of the workshop as a compressor 🙁
[b]Jayson M wrote:[/b]
[quote]You know what Jimmo,we couldn’t justify the $600 that sata wanted so we got 4 of the hand held blowers from princess auto(harbor freight) and have used them for a year with no problems.They are only $15 bucks a piece and mount 2 per stand.The good thing about it is when one of the paint shop helpers drives over one it’s not so tragic :rofl Honestly I could not see a difference between the cheap blower and the sata in performance,spray guns is another story.I say get the cheapies and save your money for the qads.[/quote]I completely agree.
I’ve used many different blowers over the years, and to be perfectly honest I’ve never found any noticeable performance difference between the high end models from SATA or the cheapest of the cheap. I guess the expensive brands may be a little more durable, but considering they have virtually no moving parts – what is there to go wrong? The ones I have at work now are real low quality ones, but they’re still doing the job 2½ years later, despite being dropped and even run over a few times.
I’ve just bought myself a £15 cheapy via ebay to use at home, and it does the job just as well as the SATA, Devilbiss and Iwata ones I’ve used in the past 😉
One tip for you though – whichever brand you buy – keep the stand mount ones covered up with some plastic bags when not in use (I use the bags that PPS liners come in). They won’t get full of the dust from blowing your jobs off (which they’ll end up blowing back onto the job anyway), and clearcoat overspray gunks them up really quickly, which blocks up the filters and makes them massively less efficient. Even then I just throw mine in the gunwash machine from time to time to keep them sparkly.
Very nice indeed.
That’s one huge spray area you’ve got there! B)
Hi John, and welcome :welc
I agree with the above.
Filler is ok for a quick fix on a job you don’t care abut, but to do it properly means feathering out 🙂
One hell of a gun isn’t it. I only wish I’d got a 1.4 instead of the 1.3.
[b]F1Diesel wrote:[/b]
[quote] I held out about 8″ from the panel though. [/quote]I’m lucky if I ever get more than 6″ away, it’s usually more like 4″ or less! Different strokes for different folks though… 🙂