Ben Hart
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Using a DA on stuff really depends on the user. Some people manage to do a lot with them and get straight work. If blocking by hand works better, there is nothing wrong with that. I use my DA to prep any flatter panels, feather paint edges etc. sometimes I will use it to start body work, but finish with a block. A lot of my prepping/sanding is with the DA.
Slick sand (or any polyester primer) is ok if you need it. But you should still be spraying 2k urethane primer over it after. Poly primers should be viewed more as a spray able finishing putty. I wouldn’t use poly primer on everyday collision stuff. Maybe real bad hail repairs or large panel repairs… Spraying the surfacer overtop is a good way to finish your repair. But in the future you may find it quicker to skim the body work with putty and knock it down. A good putty will be very quick and easy for this. My view for collision repair is that 3-4 medium coats if primer should be adequate to finish the repair…otherwise it’s not ready for primer.
Up here I have heard DuPont jobs and PPG jobs peeling. I’ve seen Sikkens ones peel from a previous painter. We started using the hardener in the base to prevent it, when I was using Sikkens.
I was unofficially told that many problems were possibly caused (or aggravated) by the painter not allowing the base to fully dehydrate before clearing.
I have a Motorcycle I painted with Cromax about 5 years ago, no peeling. My brothers car, I painted the 1/4 with Autowave 2 years ago, no problems (no hardener in the base either). Wheel well still looks good…even with stone chips.
[quote=”Painterman1″ post=31460]Wish I had body men who could seam seal like that all the ones at my shop make it look like a 3 year old did it[/quote]
I can understand that…lol I usually do the seam sealing myself.
Nice looking work Nick. Did you guys panel bond the 1/4 on? It all looks like clean work.
[quote=”Rob1962″ post=31434]So you mix a 4:1 clear as a 1:1 , i think that will give you a problem.[/quote]
Yeah. Don’t stray from the recommended mix ratio. Especially with your hardener. A little extra reducer (up to 5-10% more max) may not be so bad, but when your reducer is also your hardener (like in 4:1 mix products) you are asking for a lot of trouble.
As the others mentioned as well, an RP is much better for clear.
Just to compare, with my clear, I use about a pint/500ml of clear for an average bumper.
I would sand a part of the car and see if it is clear coated. Deltron is base/clear, and as far as I know, the only Single stage it could have been was Delthane, Concept, or Delstar etc. even then, the single stage might have clear over it.
Ron made a good point, if you can paint up to the graphics with the same paint, you should match the finish well. If it is straight single stage (with no clear or intercostal clear) painting in base clear may look a little different. Solid colours in single stage blend easy, but as Rob mentioned, with the metallic, there is a big chance of getting a halo, and polishing the blend after may make it worse.
[quote=”Idunnit” post=31387]Don’t know how many of you get your stuff thru keystone or not but lately they have been running us some killer deals on PBE products. Scored on some 3m pps cups last week, buy one get one free deals on the case with 100 liners/lids with the adapter, wall mount dispenser and all of that. $104.00 per kit.
All the local jobbers have been getting killed by the Friday deals they have been promoting, [b][color=#bb0000]I guess they are going to try to be the Walmart for collision stuff.[/color]
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Chuck[/quote]you said it… :clappy :rofl
I currently use Norton plastic. Ive used 3M and the Sherwin Williams brand. Personally, I haven’t noticed a difference other than a little variation in cost. As long as it is treated plastic and economically priced, I am happy.
I usually only use paper where necessary. I don’t go through very much. I use the white Norton paint check. It is great to work with, and we manage to get it for close to the same cost as the blue Bonmask paper.
Step 1, stop using 3M products where possible. Norton/carbo offers a lot of products that are comparable quality, but a little cheaper. Also, look into the economy lines for certain products(dominion sure seal, Pro Form, Car system, Upol etc). Some of that stuff is junk, but they each make a few great products that are very competitively priced.
Another great idea is to be friendly with the sales reps. Try new/different products. You might get some free samples out of the process and find better & cheaper alternatives.
Reuse what you can with in reason. Older tack rags can be used for priming, dirtier areas, wiping your air hose etc…the paper towels after final wipe are great to reuse to clean out wheel wells and what not on the next job. The plastic used for bagging off huge cars can be reused once for priming. Old scotch brite pads are good for scuffing/cleaning dirty parts, tooling seam sealer (like brushing them). Lots of little things, so long as they don’t slow you down or sacrifice quality
[quote=”Jayson M” post=31340][quote=”lild” post=31339] Apperantly this is a problem across the brands. Except sikkens :clappy[/quote]
:stoned :stoned[/quote]
I could make a list of problem colours from DuPont & PPG that were amazing matches in Autowave. Best system for colour matches I’ve used.
[quote=”mountainman” post=31316]I was told that color is a special factory color with crushed glass in it and to order the paint from the dealer. dupont rep has told me they can not match that color.[/quote]
That sounds…um yeah… :unsure:
Jayson, when I was at GM, we had to do that colour about 18 months ago. I don’t recall any option as straight base/clear, only 3 stage…and it wasn’t great. There were 3 stage field formulas as well. Do they still have a 3 stage alternate? Sounds like they have it figured out as normal base/clear though.
Welcome to the site! We would love to see some pics of the shop.
Getting complete times for all the procedures from the dealer is a good start. Keep in mind, the dealer times may be split up into more sub procedures, so the repair time for 1 individual task may seem low. Their times also factor in any specialty equipment…which you may not have.
Another option (sort of a crap out) is to tell the customer you will have to charge him the difference between what the insurance is paying and what you are charging. Chances are he won’t like that and he can complain to his insurance company. Then there is a chance the insurance company may pay better to satisfy their customer. But you won’t make any friends with that insurance company…
You should seal any new parts, even if they came primed.
A light grey, as close in value to your colour as possible would be ideal. As long as you get full coverage, the colour of the undercoat shouldn’t affect the completed job.
It the parts you are painting don’t match eachother afterwards, it is more likely a result of spraying them inconsistently (spraying a part off in a different orientation will affect how the metallics lay, and depending on how you spray, coverage can be different).
I just got a few Devilbiss Dekups to try out. They are somewhat similar in design to the 3M, but definitely not as good of a design. I found them kind of cumbersome, not as quick or easy to assemble. The one improvement over the 3m is that on the hard plastic outter cup the ring/lid doesn’t have normal thread, so it shouldn’t gunk up easy and not screw on too loose. It does work, and provided the price is much lower than the others, then it could be a good choice for some shops.
I don’t know what the cost is, but I would recommend the RPS or PPS cups over the DeKup system.
[quote=”nick1″ post=31191]Thanks for all the feedback guys. What does the SS stand for?[/quote]
Single Stage (direct gloss)