Ben Hart
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[quote=”dcturcotte” post=23157]Stay away from the EHP clears EC700/750. If you need a low VOC clear go with Deltron DC4010 if you can.[/quote]
We used them both. The DC is a lot easier to use, but if you can get it dialed in right, I think you can get a nicer/deeper finish with the 700/750.
I sprayed Enviro for a short while. The clear is definately the weak link. The sealer is awesome (and incredibly flat), the base is very easy to use. Just make sure it has dried off well before clearing.
Only advice with the base is to follow the tech sheet, I don’t think there’s any surprises with this stuff.
is this deltron vs. diamont?
I’ve used some deltron here and there (did use Global for a while, similar enough in some ways). I have heard good things about Diamont, I am sure you will do fine with either system.
Although this Deltron Vs. Diamont thing seems a little outdated…lol
Well said RatStang
[quote=”Idunnit” post=23119]You mentioned that all you have to do is to clear this job, not sure if I understood that right, but if your base has sat for more than 24 hours you might have to lightly skuff it and apply one more coat before you clearcoat it. If you have waited more than 24 hours then look at your tech sheets and it should have something that will address this.
Chuck[/quote]
If he is using the product I think he is using, then the base can be cleared as normal within 7 days. Nonetheless, he already sprayed it today
Which reducer did you use with the base?
I’ve never used Martin Senour, but I have used Sherwin Williams (same stuff) in the Ultra 7000 line and a little of the AWX.
Where’s the pics??? :blink:
Glad it worked out well for you.
The unhardened paint, that is the unhardened basecoat? You were using Martin Senour solvent, right? Might be a short life if it is reduced as some of their products used the active reducers. Otherwise solvent base can last a very long time in a well sealed container.
The GTi will be fine, much better than the starting line guns. The GTi is not that hard to clean. Don’t worry about the baffle, you are not spraying non-stop everyday, it will last for a very long time. Any gun will spray like crap when the parts are worn out, the GTi is no exception. As far as corrosion goes, many guns are made of aluminum so the inners (and sometimes the outside) has a coating on it or is anodized. The needles, nozzle and aircap are often made of stainless steel. The GTi is an aluminum body, the needle, nozzle and aircap are stainless. I believe the internals of the body have a coating on them so should you put water through there, you will probably be fine. Just don’t use the aluminum cup (which isn’t coated)
As I have mentioned before, find out exactly what product you are using FIRST.
The GTi and Plus are similar guns, the GTi is an HVLP, the Plus is complaint (generally sprays with a slightly higher pressure but slightly lower volume of air). The Plus is not the best gun for basecoat. Of the 2, I would suggest the GTi for you.
You obviously do not want to spend much on a gun, the GTi was a great professional gun several years ago, its just that since then, there have been many newer guns that are better, like the Tekna. The outdated GTi is still far superior to the cheap starting line gun that never was, and never will be a professional tool.
[quote=”ste” post=23095]everytime i use the foam tape in a jamb…specifically on the quarters i get a paint line. whats the proper way to mask the quarter without getting a paintline?[/quote]
On the 1/4, make sure the tape is inside the jamb far enough (say a good 1/4″ in from the edge). Gun pressure is a good factor, the higher the PSI, the deeper the paint will get giving you a sharper edge. Also beware of how the tape sits, the the adhesive part is too far out, it won’t allow the paint to go in underneath properly for that soft finish.
You probably wont ever get 100% prefect edges, but they should come out pretty darn good. When I use foam tape, I like to unmask as soon as the bake cycle is done to inspect the edge. If there is a slight sharpness to it, I will take a rag with a small amount of thinner and wipe it, this will smooth out that sharp edge. Alternately, you can knock it down with ultra fine paper after wards (1000-1500 grit).
Yeah, much longer flash times. Don’t apply it too thick/work fast when spraying. If you want to do 3 slightly lighter coats rather than 2 medium wet coats it may be easier (just make sure that in the end there is enough on there).
Watch what you are doing. The 2 issues are the amount of time the product will need to kick over and solvent evaporation. Longer flash times will be key. On the bright side, cool temps are good on completes for keeping the product open longer, which is great for where ever you are starting and stopping (preventing dry spray). Also allows the product more time to flow out and become nice and flat…too much though and thats where you get the runs.
Use your best judgement and adjust as you feel fit. Get yourself setup and make a few test passes. When you start spraying, make sure to look closely at what you have sprayed…
I’d personally recommend about 65-68 bare minimum. I’ve painted small parts in cooler temperatures…with fast reducer and accelerator (and a prayer or two).
Cold temp=slow flash times and nasty runs. Also, if it is too cold, the paint won’t start to cure (one training course I took said that below 59-60 degrees was the point where the paint would not want to harden. The solvents will flash off slowly, but until it is brought up to temp it won’t really kick over).
In regards to the tip size, it depends on the products. The clear I am using now works best with a 1.4 in my gun. The clear I was using previously was best with a 1.3 or 1.2. But in a different gun, it may work better with another size altogether. You should get an idea of what you are spraying first.
The difference in the starting line vs. something like the Tekna or SATA would be very noticable in feel, the way it sprays and ultimately the finish. The starting line with atomize the paint differently which will make it lay down differently.
For the sake of only a few hundred dollars more, there is no point to buying a cheap gun. If that few hundred dollars makes that big of a difference to you then painting cars may not be for you.
Well, I wouldn’t go too cheap. Like I said most all guns can spray waterborne. With most Devilbiss guns the only difference is the cup, not the gun. The plastic cup will be fine for everything (water or solvent), the metal cup is only for solvent.
If looking at a used gun, get photos of inside the body, it should be clean. The gun should be complete and look clean and newish. An old gun that is well taken care of will still look relatively clean and new.
I don’t know where you are or what your environmental regulations are. But the idea is the products only have to be VOC compliant. Waterborne basecoats are only one way, low VOC solvent basecoats are another. There are low VOC solvent basecoats avaliable from many paint manufacturers. When will VOC limits be implemented in your area? I don’t know. I am in Canada and VOC limits changed not too long ago. Almost all shops up here are using waterborne, but there are a few using low VOC solvents.
[quote=”ElliottG” post=23080][quote=”Ben” post=23076][quote=”ElliottG” post=23074][quote=”Ben” post=23073]There are probably 2 more important factors to consider first. The first one is your air supply. Will you have enough CFM to properly supply a gun. Secondly, what product(s) are you spraying. Each product may require a different setup on a gun (different air caps and different size of fluid tip/nozzle).
As far as waterborne goes, most guns are ok. The only thing that makes a gun good for waterborne is the gun being made of materials that will not corrode, or have coatings on it to prevent corrosion.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure my compressor is big enough and up to the job. It’s a pretty big one.
As for product…I have no idea. I don’t even know what the guy gives me when I go to buy paint? When I buy paint for lets say a 2002 VW Passat, he mixes the paint up right there for me, right? If so, does it come in a PPG can or something? I mean, basically, I’m confused because I see people spraying PPG (and others) paint, but what happens if you need a color match? I know my question is really confusing but when you go to your local paint shop what do they give you?
I know my friend has a Iwata 400 all stainless steel ready for waterborne paints…but I have no idea if I’ll ever be using those? And I think that that gun is way out of my price range…[/quote]
It should say on the label of the can what it is, or else ask them. PPG has several base coats, you are probably getting the Deltron or Deltron 2000.
You can get decent results spraying both base and clear with the same gun with some products. However, the best thing to do is get one specific gun setup for each, but by that point you are probably spending $1000+ on the 2 guns.
For what you are doing at home, you would probably be good with something like the Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi.
Exactly how big is your compressor? You need a lot of CFM, most 60 gallon compressors are not quite up to snuff to do the job really well.[/quote]
Alright. But why would it even say PPG on it if the guy at my local paint store mixes it himself to the right specs? Because they’re using PPG ingredients in the paint or something?
Right. So do you see anything wrong with the two gun kit that I posted other than being really cheap? I’m guessing the quality is not really there either…but I’m not looking at spending even $500 on guns at this time either…I’m really looking for either:
[ul]
[li]A decent gun that I can use for BOTH base and clear[/li] OR
[li]Two semi-decent guns that I can use for base/clear seperately[/li]
[/ul]Any kits that you would recommend? Or you’re saying I should look at getting a Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi and just spray both base and clear in the same gun? I mean are there any guns cheaper than those? I’m not really looking at a super high quality gun especially for my first time painting…I can always upgrade later I guess.
[quote=”ding” post=23078]When i go to the paint store they give me what i ask for. If you dont know what you are getting…ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can you use a product when you dont know what it is :wak[/quote]Well I haven’t really gotten to the step of buying paint yet so I don’t know what I will get yet![/quote]
You’ll probably get better results spraying both products with 1 quality gun than 2 mediocre guns. Check ebay, you can often find good used higher-end guns at a decent price. I wouldn’t waste my money on the kit, it won’t do what you want and you won’t get your money back if you try to sell them later.
As far as paint, the auto body supplier will have a mixing bank they use to mix the product. They may have more than 1 product line, but generally they will only be supplying from one manufacturer (like PPG). You need the tech sheet for the product to see how to use it (mixing, application and drying info as well as info on what products are compatible with it)
[quote=”bloverby” post=23077]Don’t even get me started on the “Tack and a Whack” 1- 1/2 wow clear coat application. :rofl[/quote]
I liked how when PPG came out with the 700/750 clear they boasted the 1 visit idea with the same method.
Then months later sent out a bulletin saying they needed everyone to wet mil their clear to ensure enough build as they were getting lots of complaints of delam issues. And suggested spraying more traditionally (2 medium wet coats with 3-5 min flash between coats). :rofl