Ben Hart
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[quote=”Jayson M” post=21947]Looks a little light and not red/brown enough,but it could be due to the sprayout card not having enough paint on it.I would do another sprayout card and this time spray it with your gray sealer or spi epoxy to mimic your real application,that will be the true test.Man dupont is like painting with koolaid :p That would be a very difficult color to panel paint,just saying :silly:[/quote]
Can’t say I’ve ever sprayed with kool-aid. I’ll have to give that a try…at least its VOC compliant. :lol1
Jayson gave some great advice, spray over what ever colour/valu-shade of sealer you will be using. The colour looks like it may be blendable, however. How is the flop/sidetone?
[quote=”Wydir” post=21940]Well that would save on compressor Electricity/maintenance ,Air line filters and contamination in the Propelent supply(can’t call it air supply any more haha) downside is new storage tanks, high pressure regulators on the new storage tanks and Supply of nitrogen from local welding jobber.
then nots leave out that we cant breathe the stuff and new oxygen monitoring systems in the booth so we dont die lol
so its prolly not a good idea, but we will see how many people die from this in the future im sure cant wait to hear that in the news.[/quote]:rofl
I think most people are quite happy with compressed air as is.
[quote=”bondomerchant” post=21938]ive been doing all my plastics with solvent for yrs an never had a match problem jay is right[/quote]
I’m with you 2. I’ve never had an issue, solvent water, different paint lines. I always use anti-static cleaner. I suppose it is possible that some colours are having the metallics lay a little different due to static build up on the bumper. But again, I’ve never had/seen that myself, and even with anti-static cleaner I know I have sprayed over some pretty staticy parts at times.
I worked for Chrysler for a short while.
I don’t have the info in front of me, but I seem to recall that certain parts of the frame can be worked, others not. Cold is the best way, if possible. The centre section and hydroformed crossmembers shouldn’t be touched much, if at all. The front and rear sections can be worked a bit. If you heat it, you are supposed to use a heat crayon (800 degreee IIRC) and not heat the frame for more than a total of 3 minutes. Heating multiple times is not acceptable.
It can compromise the integrity of the frame by changing the characteristics of the metal. The front are rear are intended to be weaker than the centre (like a crush zone on a uni-body). And the centre is designed to be more rigid. I am sure you understand the dynamics of heating and cooling metal
[quote=”Wydir” post=21790]Im actually getting my toners from PA. via a friend in the business which is a sheet ton cheaper than buying from a jobber no matter what kind of discount you get
the place dealing in the PPG products in my area is actually a United Auto supply parts store
he tells me that I can buy solvent from him but I am not autherized to buy the Waterbase from them (I tried to get a whole system from them but since im not a shop im not autherized unless they come and verify my booth airflow compressed air supply Quality and I have to go to there training classes) then I find out they only Deal in Aquabase.I can buy individual toners from him just not a full system but then again its Aquabase. :chair
Im going to have to find out if he can get Envirobase (there has to be away)
I just bought some pouring lids and it was $84 for 12 lids (I need like 60 more anyone know a better place for these?)
I figure all the knowledge everyone has here should help me with this Enviro stuff :teach
Thanks for all the help so far.[/quote]
That’s too bad you weren’t able to get the system through them. Every supplier has given the lids for free, as well as replacement lids down the road if needed.
If it is like up here at all, the Nexa products and PPG products are through different distributors, and apparently they are not allowed to sell eachother’s products at all.
Do you not have another PPG distributor in the area? Maybe you could get a hold of a PPG sales rep for your area.
That is actually quite interesting. There are a lot of shops here that are using envirobase, but very few who use Aquabase. Mind you, the Nexa products are sold through a different distributor than the PPG branded products here.
[quote=”deadchane” post=21784]The original post should have been a little more clear regarding the last coat of BC I applied. I’m spraying with a Sata Mini Jet 1.0MM @ 29 PSI. For the last coat I reduced the pressure at the gun to 24 PSI or -5 from what I applied the first two coats with. (I edited the previous post to make this clarification).
Ben- Going forward I wont spray a drop coat but what is a flop controller? Basemaker / Actviator?
The tech sheet recommends using ChromaPremier Activator for flexible substrates. Since I will be spraying a bumper, I will pick up a quart at the shop along with the Basemaker.
Will post updates…[/quote]
When they mix the colour with chroma base, they mix the colours and have certain additives that are in the formula, like the binder and flop controller. In some paint lines the binders are already mixed in with the pigments. In some cheaper paint lines there may not be some of the fancy stuff like flop controller. The flop controller is used to aid in the way the metallics lay down, which can alter the face and side tone (flop) of the metallics.
Basemaker is the reducer used for chromabase/chromapremier base. It is unique to the system and should not be substituted. The activator is optional, but will make for a more resilient and flexible base coat. With DuPont, the activator for the base is the same activator used with the clear coat (depending on weather you are using chromsystem or chromapremiere products).
Your air gun pressure may be a little on the high side, but not too unreasonable. If you paint anything larger you should consider a full size gun.
Like Jayson said.
As far as I understand they are the same thing just labelled differently.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=21775]As for your color match here are a couple of reasons,your last coat a 5psi,that is way to low,should be at least 20-30 psi for a reduced pressure gun.If it was resprayed by the previous owner who knows if it was a quality base coat with a good rep for match,possible over pour on the color with a toner,or a cheap brand of base known for poor match.Just a couple of things to think about.[/quote]
I was going to mention the 5 PSI as well. Chromabase colours with metallics are often mixed with the flop controller, a drop coat isn’t usually necessary.
The best source for your info is the tech sheet: http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/ChromaSystem/H-19317_ChromaBaseBC.pdf
If its not in the tech sheet, don’t do it.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=21747]Try ford UD,toyota 070,065,Gm wa560Q,nice clean pearl whites with the xyrilac pearl toner and thats it.[/quote]
The toyota was the first one that came to my mind. very clean and doesm’t do yellow on you. That Mazda one is decent as well
My vote is for SS
If you are going cheap, the OmniAU is a decent cheap SS. Easy to spray, durable, high gloss finish, and will air dry just fine overnight. I wouldn’t go with the fast reducer for the sake of speeding it up, the appropriate reducer for the condition should be fine. I have used the OmniAU in similar conditions before without issue. What is the finish like on the carts? DO you need to seal at all? I do like sealer, but if you are just going over top of a sanded primer/topcoat and the value-shade is not a big deal, then you could probably skip the cost and time for the sealer all together.
If we need it, we supp for it. Just depends on the colour and how the areas butt up to eachother.
[quote=”Wydir” post=21675]Well I think I will stick to the traditional clears as you all have mentioned. I will be getting 1 gallon of the EC clear to demo and see how it is but I will most likly stick with the DC3000,DC4000,DCU2021
I have a crossflow setup and no bake so it has to be out of dust fairly quickly not to concerned with dry times as much. I have never used DCU2002 Is this something I should give a whirl?[/quote]If you care to stick with the low voc clears, that DC4010 is best for low bake or air dry conditions. Otherwise you are better off with the3000/4000 if you don’t have VOC limits
If you are using 3M, I would suggest the automix line. They are 2 part epoxy and urethane products applied using a gun for the cartridges. If you have access to these products, they are your best bet.
As far as corrosion goes, read the tech sheet for the products. Some can go over bare metal, but most are supposed to be applied over good cured 2k primers (epoxy or urethane).
The 8307 http://3mcollision.com/products/sealants/3m-self-leveling-seam-sealer-08307.html is the most common for the drip rails. It is self-leveling and will flow to a nice smooth looking finish.
The 8308 was my favorite all around brushable seam sealer. It can be used most places and is very durable. http://3mcollision.com/products/sealants/3m-heavy-bodied-seam-sealer-08308.html
I used them for a while. They are finicky and therfore hard to get a consistant finish.
The Pros:
-you can get a real smooth deep glossy finish
-decent to polish
-low voc
-good coverage/build (compared to most medium solids clears, at least)The Cons:
-super finicky
-easy to run
-easy to get solvent pop
-can die back
-very slow to completely dry…usually too soft to handle after baking. Generally needed to be left overnight
-I’ve heard of nasty delamination issues if film build was not adequate (needs 2 good coats)The head painter I worked with managed to get fairly consistant finishes with it most of the time. He didn’t hate it, but I’m sure he prefers other brands of clear.
The best advice I can give is: over-reduce the clear by up to 10%. This will make it lay smooth like glass…but also increase the chances for runs and popping, so allow ample flash time. The accelerator can help with a few issues, but it does make the clear die off a hair and can contribute to the popping. The back to back coats seem to make the issues worse. You can spray them more like traditional clears with several minutes of flash time between coats, this was suggested by the tech rep. Kinda sucks since the back to back coats sound like a good time saver, but unless you like redos, the one visit concept is generally a load of cr@p.
Consistency is key, as soon as you change one thing just a little, it goes to sh!t. Its really too bad, since the rest of the system is really good and user friendly. If you are using low VOC products, PPG does have a much more user friendly clear. I think the it is DC4010, and according to the rep is good over solvent or water base.