Josh
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He wants it to be red, so I think we are going to try some Eastwood engine paint. It’s supposed to be good for about 650 degrees F.
The Cerakote stuff would be great, but it’s about twice the price of the Eastwood paint.
Thanks.
They always seem to look better in pictures than in real life though. It’s tough to capture the defects with a camera. I’m pretty happy with how it turned out though.
My first gun was an IR270G. It’s pretty cheap, $100 at most places. I have a Sata 4000RP now, and I still use the IR a fair amount. I do most of my clear work with the RP, but I use the IR for base quite often. Also, the RP has a 1.3 tip, and when using a cheap, fast clear (Nason 497 / 498) I get better results out of the IR with it’s 1.5.
Honestly, if I am going to sand and buff something, I don’t think it would make much difference which gun I shot it with. Sure, the IR leaves more orange peel than the RP, but it’s not a tremendous difference.
I’d probably go that route as opposed to getting the China Super Gun.
Well, despite my preconceptions and wishful thinking, it appears that I’ve been hoodwinked.
I have several partial cans of Deltron from a local supplier. They all have a similar smell. The Deltron from Bill in NY has a different odor entirely, and … wait for it… smells just like some partial cans of Omni Plus I have laying around.
Again, no chemical analysis, but to the nose it appears that I’ve had it stuck in my ass. I’ll have to do some spray outs or something with a different perspective on the paint. I would have bet almost anything that I was spraying Deltron because it seemed to cover better than the Omni I’ve used, but the smell test doesn’t agree with that.
Apparently it was a towel issue. My MF towels were clean / machine washed, but they were also older towels that had been used / washed several times. Brand new towels solved the problems. Thanks!
As an aside, buffing out the 1500 grit scratches took what seemed like an eternity. I noticed 3M has come out with a 5000 grit sanding / polishing paper now. Could I have gone from the 1500 straight to the 5000, or would I have to use a 2000 or 3000 in between those steps? I’m much more likely to damage the finish on the car with the buffer and the wool pad than I am with the DA and some sand paper, so by sanding with a finer grit paper I was hoping to shorten the time with the wool pad and the buffer – which would reduce the chance of me damaging the finish.
In the future, if I can go from 1500 to 5000, then to buffing/polishing, I would probably do it. If the jump from 1500 to 5000 shouldn’t be done without an intermediate grit paper, I’ll be tempted just stick with buffing out the 1500 grit scratches with a wool pad and compound as opposed to making another entire lap around the car with the intermediate grit paper.
I usually buy the microfiber towels from CarQuest, they come in a pack of 24 for about $25. I have a few Cobra MF towels kicking around, and some other brands here and there. I’ll try the Griot ones from Advance if the ones I ordered from CarQuest tonight continue to cause problems for me.
I agree about sanding and what not, it’s a huge pain. This car belongs to a good friend of mine, and unfortunately I’m not good enough with the gun to leave the clear flat enough to give it back to him. It’s tough for me to let it go with the orange peel in it.
I’m using 3M products and Lake Country pads.
Clear is PPG DC2021.
If someone is willing to critique my process, here’s what I have done:
-3 coats of the 2021 clear.
-Sanded all the orange peel and debris out of the paint with 3M 1500 grit dry on a 6 inch DA.
-I tried sanding it by hand with a soft block and 2000 grit but abandoned this after fighting with deep scratches caused by some invisible piece of debris in the paper, in the water, or on the car. It seemed that no matter what I did, I always ended up leaving lines / scratches behind that were obviously caused by a piece of debris under the paper.
-Buff with wool pad and 3M 05973 Perfect it 2 rubbing compound on a rotary buffer. My buffer doesn’t have RPM, just a wheel with numbers, but I ran the buffer almost as slow as it would go. 1200 RPM’s is my guess.
-Polish with the same rotary buffer using a white Lake Country pad, and 3M machine polish 05996. The white pad is a medium / light cutting pad.
-Polish with Porter Cable 7424, black Lake Country pad, and 3M Ultra fine polish. I don’t remember the part number, it’s the blue stuff. The black pad has no cut to it.At this point, I’m ready to go to wax. However, when I wipe off the Ultra Fine I notice the fine scratches.
Like I said, I’ve had good luck with it. My personal belief is that through the contact I posted, I have gotten Deltron product when that is what I’ve ordered. I don’t have any empirical proof though, just my opinion. Other than some kind of chemical analysis, I don’t know how you’d prove it beyond doubt.
I think most of the regulars on here know that I’m pretty new to this business, so before anyone reading this jumps on the online Deltron wagon, let me qualify my experience with the product:
-My first experience with Deltron, first experience ever, was with the red I mentioned earlier. Prior to this, I had painted half a dozen cars and maybe a dozen panels in Omni or Omni plus. The online Deltron that I used covered better than either of the Omni lines that I used, and I assumed it to be real deal Deltron. This paint was supplied by the customer, who purchased it off E-bay from the contact I posted earlier.
-My next Deltron job was the green truck I mentioned in this thread. This Deltron came from my local supplier. I did send a message to the E-bay guy looking for a price, and after several days he got back to me. Online was about $200 cheaper a gallon than the local guys. This Deltron behaved the same way the red online Deltron did. This adds to my opinion that the red I used was real Deltron, but again that’s just my opinion.
-From here on out I bought almost all the Deltron I’ve used from the online source in NY. I’ve done 2 more complete cars with this Deltron and had no issues.
-The car I car I am currently working on is also Deltron, but from the local CarQuest store. This product behaved the same as all the other Deltron I’ve used, regardless of where I got it from. This also makes me want to believe that the Deltron from Bill in NY is genuine. I’ve never had the Deltron from Bill do anything other what I expected it to in comparison to the local bought Deltron.
I think from this explanation, it’s pretty obvious that I’m not a seasoned pro or anything – but I feel like the differences between Omni, Omni Plus, and Deltron are readily apparent when using the product. I’ve used enough Omni or Omni Plus that I think I would recognize the difference when painting with it, but without doing a blind test to prove it, that’s just another opinion. However, this opinion is another thing that leads me to believe the Deltron I’ve been getting from NY is legit.
Right now, I have half a gallon of the online Deltron on the shelf for my next project. I want to know as much as anyone if this product is the real deal, even though I’m sure I come across like I’m advocating the use of the online stuff. If anyone knows of a way to test or verify the legitimacy of the product, I’d be happy to do it (assuming it’s not super expensive or something).
315-386-8148, his name is Bill.
I hadn’t ever considered that the Deltron I was buying could be counterfeit product. I’ve been getting most of it from ebay seller wbmesq, but I usually call them directly now as opposed to dinking with E-bay. It’s an auto parts store in Watertown / Canton, New York.
The red that I got from them acted like all the other Deltron I’ve used, but I’m not experienced enough to say that it was unequivocally Deltron. I was doing an entire car with it, so it’s possible that it was some mis-mixed or otherwise faulty product as far as color was concerned.
The example I gave is the greatest disparity I’ve found between E-bay and my local supplier. Another example was a green Toyota Tundra I did – Local supplier was ~$575 for a gallon of Deltron, that same seller on E-bay was ~$280. Do you guys think that is a great enough gap in price to warrant counterfeit product concerns?
I can’t recall any other exact prices off the top of my head, but it wouldn’t be abnormal for them to be 60% of my local supplier.
I’m not sure what other painters use as far as material, I’ve never been around anyone else that does this kind of thing, but to do a complete color change on a truck like that I think a gallon of DBC is on the low side of the material requirements. I just did an 87 Buick Regal in black. I put the paint on top of DP90 (a black epoxy primer / sealer) and I literally used every drop of the gallon I had. I did three coats of base color on the car, door jambs, the bumpers, and some other odds and ends. I ended up doing the passenger door twice. I’m using a Sata 4000 RP with a 1.3 tip.
Good luck!
I have a bin for used sand paper of each grit… It seemed like a good idea when I first started doing auto body and paint work, however the bins rarely get opened anymore. The only time I get into the used stuff much anymore is when I find that I’m out of fresh paper of a particular type and need to get something done now.
I’ve used the E-bay Deltron a lot with no complaints. I’ve done 3 complete cars with it; one was Ford Candy Apple Red – $800 a gallon through my normal supplier, $117 shipped to my door from E-bay.
Is there another filler primer you’d recommend?
I’d have build another building to go any wider. The 11-12 feet is the width of the current structure. Unfortunately, I can’t afford to build something (or have the current one extended) so I was hoping to work with what I had.
However, it sounds like I might be better off saving pennies until I can either find a booth that can sit independent of a building outside, or I can afford to a booth and another structure at the same time.
Changing to 80 grit to block immediately, that will speed the process dramatically.
I haven’t done much research on sand paper beyond price. I’ll do my own research, but if anyone here has a recommendation, I’d like to hear it.
There is what appears to be the same Atcoa sander in your picture on E-bay for $75:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151005381415?item=151005381415&viewitem=&vxp=mtr
I have asked a question to the seller just to verify that it works (his description is… uh… lacking) but if they confirm the sander works, I’ll probably pick that up.