Chris
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In the past I used to use paper only – much too slow.
Then I switched to paper around the repair area and plastic elsewhere. Significantly faster and much less chance of overspray creeping under a taped join that’s lifted. Still had a little dust, but not much. Most didn’t need buffing, just a nib or three. The one thing that I had to watch for was extending the paint on to the paper – very easy to overwet it and have it stick to the surface. Used a 75mm paper strip under the edge to protect it but that’s more work and more time.
Recently I’ve been using straight plastic up to a taped line, usually two lines of 50mm tape, overlapped about 10mm. So, the plastic actually starts about 60mm from the panel edge. It’s much more expensive but:
a. The job is definitely cleaner. I think because the corona treated plastic tends to hold the dust; and,
b. The whole process is way faster. I’d estimate I’m saving 15-20 minutes on an average job and that really adds up with savings in time outweighing the extra cost of materials.As smooth said, clean suit, wet floor (my booth is end draught) and everything else clean. Apart from one little run, every job this last week has been good to go straight off the gun. Gotta love that. :dnc
Welcome to the site, Rob.
[quote=”Ben” post=31272]Getting complete times for all the procedures from the dealer is a good start. Keep in mind, the dealer times may be split up into more sub procedures, so the repair time for 1 individual task may seem low. Their times also factor in any specialty equipment…which you may not have.
[/quote]This is very true.
Apart from the risk that there are sub-procedures and the use of special tools there is also the fact that you simply may not be all that familiar with the car and regardless of your skill it just takes longer. Somehow you have to build a bit of a layer of “fat” to cover this. I sometimes try for a higher labour rate, maybe 5-8% above the true shop rate to give me a little room for these kinds of things. Some insurance companies will agree, others will argue, but, if nothing else they may argue down to your shop rate whereas if that had been your starting point you’d be below it.
I’m not familiar with the term “asspaier” – is that someone who writes the job list and times and then you just price it? Our system is different – we have to do that ourselves so if you miss something then you could be out of pocket if the insurance co. don’t agree to a variation. Means that you have to really make sure that you cover every possible thing.
I think that, in your position, I’d be basically writing up the list myself. At least you have the vehicle there to be able to check things against. Problem is that that’s another couple of hours work that you don’t get paid for, but better than accepting someone else’s mistake.
Dupont recommend Value Shade 5. 11 parts HS Black: 9.6 parts HS White: 1.6 parts LS Blue.
I can almost guarantee that the bar will come out a shade different to the guard, but that always happens. I would prime the lot in mid-grey to get consistency.
Looking at the formula it’s 3% Black, 1% LS White and 0.03% Transparent Maroon so there is precious little colour there to give much in the way of hiding, although it’s not flagged as a poor hider and there’s plenty of metallic.
I know we’re heading off topic but that is interesting, Rep. I haven’t used waterborne but always thought that it was like water based house paint in that once it had dried it was no longer water soluble. What you’re saying is that is not the case but that it can, eventually, be washed away.
I used to have the same problems with 3 layer white pearls. The Honda one always too blue and the Mazda one too white. Since I got the spectro and let the computer do the shading I’m getting matches good enough for edge to edge. On whites anyway, it solved my problems.
Seen similar on other Kias and Hyundais. Ultra thin paint on plastics that looks great when new but fails very quickly. It fries up real bad if even go near it with anything that contains solvent. The new ones don’t have it, thankfully.
I do and I can.
PM sent.
[quote=”David” post=30933]
gersons t57 is awesome stuff for a show car but its 99% fillers have u ever washed a car a few times after applying it or had it out in direct sunlight for a day? buff swirls everywhere. [/quote]Ah, but the secret is to use it with a Cyclo. No swirl. Period.
There are probably plenty of others who’ve been down this path but here are some things that I’ve learnt:
[u]Paint systems[/u]
The biggest problem with many companies systems is the duplication. One rack of tinters for 2K, one for basecoat and another for commercial finishes means huge initial outlay and ongoing inventory cost. Then things like hardeners – a whole range of hardeners for each different product that you have.
I started with two racks of PPG (2K/Cobra and Dulon) and still had to buy in Deltron when I needed it. Then I switched to Dupont. Now I have one rack of tinters which I can use for every different paint that I might want – acrylic (lacquer and enamel), economy basecoat, premium basecoat, 2K (single stage), primer tinting and even a vinyl paint. I can use common hardeners for Single Stage and (most) clears. At maximum stock levels my inventory cost has gone down by nearly $30,000. That’s a lot of money to free up when you’re just a small business, not to mention the space freed up.
So, first thing I’d recommend is to have a close look at any systems that you’re considering and see what kind of benefits they offer across the range. Also look at the local distributor – can they offer you the service and pricing that you need?
Bear in mind that most paint companies will extend warranties if you use their complete system. This can help if you happen to have a product failure. There are conditions, of course.
Also important is the colour support that the paint company offers. The bigger companies have much better colour support than the smaller ones, simply because they have the resources to develop the formulae and variants that you need to get a good match.
Some paint companies will supply a complete system on consignment and you just pay for refills. They generally will only do this for big shops, though. So, you’ll probably have to buy your system. Buying new is expensive. Tell your supplier and your paint company rep that you are in the market for a system. They will usually know of shops that are closing down and the system can be purchased at a heavily discounted price. You may have to wait a little while but it’s usually worth it. Lots of other equipment may also be had the same way.
[u]Booth[/u]
A quick look at those booths you mentioned and I’m amazed that booths are so cheap there. Even so, work out what you think you can afford and buy the best design booth you can. A lot of the fancy features you can forego but, if you can afford a side downdraft then go for it in preference to a semi downdraft.
Make a list of the features that you want/need and try to have a look at some booths from different manufacturers. Sometimes there can be a huge difference in price for things that you don’t necessarily want/need.
[u]Shop[/u]
This is where it gets interesting. My trade customer base is car dealers and they are the world’s laziest creature. So I’m stuck with a shop that isn’t ideal and that I have to pay ridiculous rent for, simply because I’d lose those customers if I moved too far away. Consider your customer base and try to choose a location that is convenient for them but offers reasonable costs for you.
Shop layout. My shop is full of compromises, good size but wrong shape so I can’t make good use of the space. Wet weather is a nightmare because we have to move cars through the rain to get from one side of the shop to the other. Look carefully at the size and shape of any shop that you are considering. Do some scale sketches to see if a good flow of vehicles can be achieved without one process impinging on another. For example you don’t want prep directly outside the door of your booth.
Some, maybe all of the above you probably already know. If there is one thing that you didn’t or hadn’t considered then I hope I’ve helped.
Farecla G3 is pretty much the standard here and it certainly is a very good compound. However, it can leave a residue that can be quite difficult to remove. It seems to work best on fresh paint and struggles a bit on some of the really hard clears like those coming out of Germany. G4 is a little better, but not quite so aggressive. I use the AutoSmart Sophisticut in preference to G3 – it’s no slower and polishes up to a better shine with no residue problem. Don’t know if this is available in the US but the guys in the UK will know it.
The G10, I find does an adequate job on lighter colours but not really good enough on dark colours, especially black. For these I finish with Gelson T57, unquestionably the best swirl remover/polish I’ve ever used for dark cars.
The Farecla G1 dry compound for removing 2000 grit scratching from denibbing is exceptional. Very fast and very effective. The Farecla rep, when demonstrating the products, primed the pads with the appropriate compound.
I’ve done hundreds of headlights – just sand, buff and polish. Results are good to start but some seem to deteriorate quickly so have been looking at clear coat as an extra cost option. Car dealers just want the quick results so the vehicle will pass for registration but owners are more prepared to pay the extra for a longer term result, particularly when lights on some imported cars can run up around $700.
One of the things I’ve been wrestling with is how to get the clear perfectly flat so that it doesn’t affect the light. Even the slightest peel makes a noticeable difference especially with lights that are projector style – the ultra sharp cutoff becomes blurry at a distance. Wetsand and buff is one option but I was looking for a better off the gun finish. One of the more successful things I’ve tried is very thin coats using a 1.0mm HVLP mini gun, this was probably more successful than overthinning and overloading and letting it all just run off the bottom edge (this technique is being promoted in some of the detailing forums, using a 1K urethane clear, applying with a shop towel rather than spray).
Jimmo, that’s interesting about polishing the panel first. I picked it up at some Dupont courses that I’ve attended. They use Farecla G4 with a lambswool pad and polish until there is a high shine. Seems to make no sense to do this to a panel that you’re going to hit with 800 or 1500 but it definitely works. The paint goes on smoother and cleaner and the colour match is better with the blend fading away better too. People think I’m nuts attacking a damaged panel with a buff first up but the results show that they are right.
At Dupont’s recommendation I use the same hardener for clear as for 2K (single stage). It is a 2:1 +10% clear though so ratios are much the same. Don’t know about using a hardener from a 4:1 system – they are quite different and what ratio would you mix it at?
Sometimes you just have to improvise.
[IMG]http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss334/cprscc/Painting/Image002-4_zps8fabcb98.jpg[/IMG]
Somewhere I have a photo of a similar setup for doing a motorbike frame. If I find it I’ll post it up.
Painted on? Wow! It’s all vinyl here.