Neil Summers
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MoCoke, I warranty my work for a year because that’s all my customers require. That doesn’t mean the work will only last a year. I’m sure I would fix anything beyond the year if asked, I’ve just never been asked. My customers are fine with that. I do no insurance work or any heavy collision work. It’s rare that I ever replace a part, everything is hammered out and repaired. My workmanship is better than the other shops that will turn around work quickly. I’m always busy, they aren’t always busy. I’ve never seen or heard of a failure and about 95% of my business is repeat customers. I’m doing something right and have been doing it for quite a few years.
Cromax… I don’t think One Choice is compatible with AquaBase.. I’ll double check. If it isn’t low VOC, I can’t even get it here. I’ll have some UV SpeedPrime and HS Plus Wet on Wet Sealer (lt, med and dark) by monday.
Jayson… 6 small jobs a day is as much as I can do and I knock off early on Fridays. I don’t need any more than that. I’m not as young as I used to be and it’s still a good living.
You read an awful into what I’ve said. I said I can’t use bulldog because it reacts with the aquabase. Does that sound like I’m using bulldog to you? I said I liked spraying onyx because it acts more like the solvent base that I’m used to and dries faster. So what? I like a big porter house steak too but I had chicken for dinner. No contradiction. I installed the Aquabase after reviewing just about everything available to me that meets Maryland’s low Voc rule and it’s got better support in my area than Onyx. I like it’s color matches and the way it blends. Probably the best I’ve seen. I’m disappointed in it’s drying time and coverage and I can’t use some techniques that I’m accustom to. I was lead to believe it had superior coverage.. it’s right there on PPGs site. I don’t feel that it’s coverage is any better than anything else I have used. It that ok with you? I work out of two locations, there is a PPG rep close to both. The closest Onyx rep is 20 miles from either site.
When I form my opinions, I don’t really consider how you will feel about it. I can argue with you all day long, I’m pretty good at it. I’ve got some good suggestions here and I intend to stick around and learn something. I don’t mind butting heads with you. If I thought I knew everything, I wouldn’t be on a public refinishing forum. But you probably already knew that.
Ding… DA sanding to 600 is like changing religions to me. I usually don’t go past 320 with a DA. For me, the paper tends to clog up fast when I get to the finer grits. I’ll experiment with it.
Ben… About PPGs low VOC clears.. I haven’t used them yet but the locals are saying the same thing. They aren’t happy with them. There is an Omni Low VOC clear that they like but apparently the factory won’t warranty it “lifetime”. I only need to warranty my stuff for a year but I still don’t want failures. I don’t mind paying up for a great looking clear. The DC2000 isn’t cheep but as far as I’m concerned, it makes me money because it’s fast and looks great and I don’t spend much time cutting and buffing.
Cromax.. Thanks, I’ll look into Omni’s 2k spectral gray primers. I hadn’t thought about IR cure. Product cost is not my concern. I don’t mind paying for quality products… I just don’t like slow progress. I need to push about 6 cars a day through… All minor damage but it’s still a lot of work for a one man operation. I’m the owner, salesman, prep man, body man and painter.
Guns and booth: It varies. My shop is old and antiquated and grandfathered. Guns… I have several. I’d rather buy a gun that works well for my clear than a clear that works for my gun. I’m by no means a gun snob. It’s my opinion that the operator is more important than the gun. Some of my work goes mobile… Particularly Limos, fire engines, Semi trucks and occasional airplanes. I get the weird stuff that won’t fit in a booth. I use a turbine and either AccuSpray or Apollo guns. Apollo for the clear.,
I really dont know what you are asking here.You do cheap fleet work…..well you got to do what you have to do I guess.So I don’t understand why you put in a high $ system,it makes no sense,why not put in a low voc solvent base or keep using diamont.There are plenty of ways to maintain production but using cheap 1k and etch primer,no sealer etc is going to be counter productive.Spend the time to prep finer,it doesn’t take much extra time,you need to get”hiding or filling scratches with base” out of your head,it just doesn’t work.Spraying waterborne over rattle can primer is asking for trouble,the base will actually eat into it eventually.[/quote]
I don’t think I was asking anything? I can’t continue to use the diamont because it isn’t available in Maryland.We went “green” on July 1st. Diamont isn’t a low VOC product. I don’t really think the Aquabase is a “high dollar” system compared to other low VOC alternatives. It is certainly more expensive than Diamont and less expensive than Envirobase. As for “hiding or filling scratches with base”… I don’t think I said that. I think I said hiding scratches with primer and bulldog on plastic parts. PPG says to sand to 800 wet for Aquabase. I do that for high metalics, I can get away with 600 for solids colors.
Somebody asked which clear I’m using: Deltron DC2000 Ultra Velocity Clear. I’ll be out of it this month and will have to start using a low VOC clear. I’m not sure what I’ll use yet. I’ll need a fast clear. The DC2000 spoiled me and I don’t expect to find a product that looks that nice and sets that fast in a low VOC product.
First… I’m not using Bulldog on bumpers… I “did” use it for years. It was a decent adhesion promoter over plastic and helped hide scratches. Never had a problem with it. I’m not using it with the water based paint… it doesn’t work.
I’m not in a position to use a 2k primer unless I’m doing a bike or a retail car. I do very little retail work. I can keep bikes a longer so I can use 2k primers and I can wait till the next day to cut and buff. I do stay within the system when time and money warrants it. For the most part, my business is all fleet, rentals, dealers, etc.. I rarely have a car more than a day and most of my work is spot repair. They aren’t looking for perfection or longevity nor are they paying for it. In in the morning and out by 5pm. If I have a car more than a day, I did something wrong. I’ll shoot an etch primer on bare metal and a 1k on plastic. Everything is warranted for a year and I’ve never had a failure that I’m aware of. I’m a technical purist when it comes to my customer’s personal bikes and the occasional retail car job but not when it comes to the fleet business. In and out, it’s the business that I’m in….
I did take the application course and the paint acts just like it should. It just takes more time than solvent borne. I have used Onyx in another shop which is a solvent based low voc “hybrid” and it “acts” more like traditional solvent based paint. You can see it flash off faster and it covers 400 to 600 better than the Aquabase… Coverage is about the same as the Aquabase.
[quote=”smooth” post=33977][quote=”Snipe Hunter” post=33964]Stumbled on Refinish Network on YouTube and I’ve been looking for a decent “all encompassing” forum. Been shooting RM/Diamont for years.. Maryland just switched to Low VOC and I went with PPG Aquabase waterborne. Great color matches but everything else kinda blows. Hoping to learn a few things here.[/quote]
Please explain how “everything else kinda blows”…[/quote]
First, I’ll address the positives so I don’t come off as an opinionated paint snob. I have used Diamont and Chrizzma for about 8 years and I was fine with it. Like anything else I ever used, it’s fine once you use it a while.
The Aquabase blends real nicely. There’s no shadows or halo like there can be with the solvent paints. The color matches are astounding. I can only think or one or two colors that I’ve struggled with.
The downsides: I have to sand everything to 800 or you’ll see the sand marks with silvers and golds. I’m used to sanding to 400 and sometimes 600 with silvers and golds. I tend to use solvent based bulldog on plastic bumpers under my primer. If I use Aquabase over the bulldog, the clear will wrinkle. It gets worse with more coats. I stopped using bulldog. I’ll try the waterbased bulldog but it $70 a quart…
I’m still shooting over a solvent based primer (Omni) until I run out. The waterbased primer will be about double the price when I start using it. \You’ve got to be real careful about drying the paint before clearing. I’ve had to redo a few jobs because it wasn’t dry. If it’s not completely dry… the paint moves (for lack of a better word). You can see what looks like grainy shadows where it was wet.
I tend to get more dirt in the paint because it stays wet so long.
I was told that the coverage would be better than my RM/Diamont. It isn’t. I questioned the PPG rep and he told me that I need to shoot the proper spectral gray primer to get the better coverage….I told him that if it had better coverage, I wouldn’t need the spectral gray primer. I’m sure the RM coverage would be better too with a matching primer under it. Silvers and real dark blacks and blues don’t cover well. I use a black primer under black and dark blue now.
I tend to have to block out more coats of primer to hid any imperfections because the paint won’t hide anything.
More steps, more (real light) coats and blow dry between each coat, more sanding, worse coverage, longer time in the booth.
But… it looks great if you sand everything out real nicely.
I do a ton of headlamps. First, stay away from any solvent stronger than your wax remover. If the lamps have any tiny cracks “fissures”, solvent will soak into them and make them look worse. I use PreCleno or RM 900 to clean them.
Depending on how bad they are, I usually start with 400/wet using a soft block. I have had to use 240 on some really bad ones. Then 600, 800 and sometimes 1500 if I have nothing else to do but 800 usually looks pretty good. 1500 really makes them “pop”. Then I clear coat them. If I leave the lamps in the car, I can do a set in about 40 minutes. I charge around $100 for a set.
It’s almost always an “add on”, the car was in the shop for another reason for another repair or it is to get a car through Maryland State Inspection.
Sup neighbor..
I understand PA is moving to WB/low VOC in 2014… Stock up on your favorite primer and clear before you can’t get them anymore. I’m on my last can of clear and still haven’t found anyone who is happy with their low VOC clear ( with the exception of one Omni user)and I think he drinks it..