Any body work with trucks…like tractor trailers?
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I have been wanting to do one for a long time…now the time has come…I have a 2009 Volvo VNL 780 parked besides the garage…I have a few questions…
Anyone shoot Imron Elite on a regular basis? How different is it to shoot than regular base/clear except for the long cure times? Is it easy to polish? Can it be color sanded? I must use the reduced voc stuff…so its an 8821 clear going on the truck…The owner insists on Imron…
I also have some SMC repairs to the inner structure of the hood…Anyone work on volvos? Can you point me to the procedure to remove the hinge supports in the hood? They look burried under the other supports, I don’t want to have to unglue everything to get to it…there must be a better way…
Any help appreciated…
Thanks.
August 15, 2010 at 5:33 am #23917Uhhh, well i have a tri axle dump here right now. I guess thats close. I cant really answer your questions though since i have never shot the elite amd the hood i repaired was glass not smc. I did a regular glass repair, bodywork, rebase the hood, did some airbrushing on it and shot 2 coat of spi euro clear.
I used to work on heavy trucks for a while. The SMC repair is easy to do, I liked it a lot. Are you doing a single or double sided repair, or replacing the individual panel? SMC repair is almost identical to fiberglass except you need to use SMC resin not fiberglass resin. SMC resin gives both mechanical and chemical adhesion to the substrate, unlike the fiberglass which basically just gives mechanical adhesion. Also, the SMC resin is activated with the BPO (Benzoyl Peroxide) cream hardener like most body fillers. I would recommend using fiberglass mat, rather than cloth for the repair. If used properly it can give a stronger repair. I prefer the evercoat SMC panel adhesive P/N 994
Imron is very different than automotive base/clears. It is much slower, tends to give more texture (orange peel) and doesn’t flow out much so you will need to make sure you can spray it smooth first.
Once it has dried (after about 2-3 days) you can wetsand and polish it all you want. It does polish well, but does take more effort than automotive clear coat.
As far as removing the Volvo hood, I don’t remember exactly since it has been many years. I am pretty sure the hinges bolt off and aren’t too terribly difficult to do. Can you post some pics, maybe refresh my memory?
Thanks for the replies…
Taking the hood off is not a problem…these are easy…unplug the single loom and 4 bolts…and it falls off :woohoo:
I repair structural smc with epoxy resins and cloth…makes for a very solid repair. I learned that from my boat guys…
I need to repair two small cracks in the hinge support as the truck had another semi back up into it lightly..In order to make the job easy, I would unbond the internal support from the hood, repair it and then bond it back in…except that its buried under 5 other supports, including the ram air ducts… and I don’t want to unbond all of those internal structures to get to the hinge support piece which also surrounds the grill…If I do, I am in for 400$ in fusor adhesive!…. :cens
Actually, you made me realize that there is already imron elite on the truck from the factory…I can sand 1500 on it and polish it back as a test to get a feel for it. I think I’ll shoot a scrap fender with the imron first to get the hang of it….it looks like a different animal…
I am looking forward to this job on monday…new stuff is always fun…
August 15, 2010 at 7:43 am #23926What is the difference between Imron elite and the 5000/6000?Is the elite single pass?I don’t work on big trucks but we paint them on a regular basis,if your color is a metallic I would go with the 6000,solid would be 5000.We used to stock dupont clear but we have been using sikkens clear on imron 6000 for over 7 years with no problems 😛 I can ask the guys at the shop about your questions,they deal with it on a regular basis.
If your doing a metallic imron is easy,put on your first coat,then your cross coat back to back and walk away,then come back in 15minutes and clear it.Don’t tack the base as it stays wet until you clear it and it crosslinks and cures.August 15, 2010 at 5:50 pm #23931[b]Jayson M wrote:[/b]
[quote]Don’t tack the base as it stays wet until you clear it and it crosslinks and cures.[/quote]
Dont tell Frank that. your supposed to tack between clear coats :whistle:[b]Jayson M wrote:[/b]
[quote]What is the difference between Imron elite and the 5000/6000?Is the elite single pass?I don’t work on big trucks but we paint them on a regular basis,if your color is a metallic I would go with the 6000,solid would be 5000.We used to stock dupont clear but we have been using sikkens clear on imron 6000 for over 7 years with no problems 😛 I can ask the guys at the shop about your questions,they deal with it on a regular basis.
If your doing a metallic imron is easy,put on your first coat,then your cross coat back to back and walk away,then come back in 15minutes and clear it.Don’t tack the base as it stays wet until you clear it and it crosslinks and cures.[/quote]Imron 5000/6000 is their older line. The Elite is very similar but with some improved and updated technologies as well as lower VOCs (although 5000 and 6000 is available in a 3.5 VOC formula). Kind of like chroma base and chroma premiere, basically the same and applies basically the same just one is supposed to be better…
Being in Canada, I am now stuck with the low VOC stuff…and the elite is the only one that passes…so from now on, that’s all we have.
My understanding though is since 2008 all Volvo trucks are done at the factory with Imron elite….
The customer requested imron all the way…I’ll do a test fender or something to get the hang of it…
I am now just concerned with the extent of the structural pieces I must unglue from the hood to get to the piece I want to repair or replace, I am still not sure about what to do…I am leaning towards replacing right now, it has many hairline cracks which tells me it has been stressed a lot more than it seems at first sight…
Right now, I believe I have to take the ram air ducts out and then the hinge supports. The exterior of the hood will be cosmetic only…I am just afraid that if I screw up on the inner structure that it will crack again and I will have to redo…not a pleasant thought…but it is my first hood and the customer is aware of that…he is very trusting which is quite nice…
August 16, 2010 at 5:27 am #23950Well our customers always say they want imron…until they realize what it costs,our cost on peterbuilt radiant fire red(forget the code)is almost $300 a litre :wak I’m in Canada too and our supplier has told us nothing about imron changing,I’m pretty sure it falls under industrial so the new automotive law doesn’t apply to us,we can still get 5000/6000.Serge if you are concerned about repairing the hood get a new one,when they are damaged around the hinges it is impossible to keep it from cracking.
[b]Jayson M wrote:[/b]
[quote]Well our customers always say they want imron…until they realize what it costs,our cost on peterbuilt radiant fire red(forget the code)is almost $300 a litre :wak I’m in Canada too and our supplier has told us nothing about imron changing,I’m pretty sure it falls under industrial so the new automotive law doesn’t apply to us,we can still get 5000/6000.Serge if you are concerned about repairing the hood get a new one,when they are damaged around the hinges it is impossible to keep it from cracking.[/quote]Jayson, what supplier do you use for your DuPont products?
August 16, 2010 at 6:05 am #23952We get it from napa in Lethbridge who gets it from a napa in Calgary.Not sure which one,I will find out tomorrow,we do have a ppg delfleet system and nothing has changed with it either.
If Lethbridge gets it from here than it comes from NAPA/CMAX which is near where I live. I know all the guys in there…Les (the manager of Cmax) is working on finishing switching over all his stuff to the low VOC systems. He should be done with that in the next few months. For the heavy truck/fleet/industrial they are VOC restricted as well, but I am pretty sure they are higher (3.5 VOC). So if he has to drop the 5000/6000 for the Elite, it will happen soon. Les is trying to sell as much of the old stuff while he can though, just to get it used up.
I can get the hinge support and change just that…I have to un-glue the air ducts to get it out…Maybe I should do this however, I have repaired composites that were working way harder than that with good results….especially in boats…
That reinforcement hinge part (also does the grill perimeter) is not that beefy…Do you guys regularly change those parts out? I plan to use a little heat to get the glue to soften enough to pry the parts off…is that what you guys do? The Volvo dealer estimated 8 hours to do the replacement…and almost 700 for the part…at 75$ an hour..so I know they do it there…
We’ll see…Its fun to tinker with new stuff….The color of the truck is sort of a bluish purple pearl…we’ll see how much its going to be. I bet the clears are an arm and a leg too…
[b]serge wrote:[/b]
[quote]I can get the hinge support and change just that…I have to un-glue the air ducts to get it out…Maybe I should do this however, I have repaired composites that were working way harder than that with good results….especially in boats…That reinforcement hinge part (also does the grill perimeter) is not that beefy…Do you guys regularly change those parts out? I plan to use a little heat to get the glue to soften enough to pry the parts off…is that what you guys do? The Volvo dealer estimated 8 hours to do the replacement…and almost 700 for the part…at 75$ an hour..so I know they do it there…
We’ll see…Its fun to tinker with new stuff….The color of the truck is sort of a bluish purple pearl…we’ll see how much its going to be. I bet the clears are an arm and a leg too…[/quote]
If we were replacing the part we would use the oxy acetelyene torch on the side of the damaged panel to heat the seam just enough to seperate the adhesive. There is a fine line between just enough heat to melt the adhesive and too much, burning the good panel. If you are not confident with the torch you can probably use a good heat gun, but it will be a lot slower.
When you go to rebond it you can use the Pro-Form adhesive instead of the Fusor. The Pro-Form should be cheaper and works well. In fact, the pro-form is a relabeled package of the product that most heavy trucks use at the factory. (you’ll notice its distinct green colour).
August 21, 2010 at 9:27 am #24119I worked at a peterbilt plant and started shooting the elite before it was introduced to the shops. The formula has been changed several times. it is a hi solids low VOC product. But very different than the 5000 it dries slower and it has a point that when reached will fall very easily. It never shot the same but it is all that’s used on the trucks today. The difference is the environment that we sprayed the truck in and then when we would go to touch up and spray very hard to duplicate we had to reduce and use accelerator and try and spray in 1 to 2 coats max due to the hucks. You have to adapt it to you, We sprayed at such high pressure and the paint and clear is both heated with a hot water system to get it to flow and then baked. I know this is a lot of rambling but what I’m saying is that you have to work with it. Some love it I hated it out of the production line booths. Hope that this helps you good luck.
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