Lesonal Pro Air
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Just recently switched jobs and I am using sikkens now. After ten years of spraying Sherwin, its kind of weird spraying this stuff. The booth has no heat make up or bake cycle on it so they are using pro air clear. The other painter there is using fast hardner to get cars out quick. I have sprayed a few things this way and get poor results. Its just realy hazy and died back. I dont like it. Does anyone have any input for me? Any advice would be great.
What clear you using?? Is it meant for 1 or 2 panels like a bumper or gaurd blend through a door??
Some clears have there limits to how many panels you can spray without loosing gloss. I used to use spies turbo clear on some jobs looks great on bumpers and 2 panels max but do a whole front end and it just dies and drops gloss.. You could try using a medium hardner to slow it down but not to much 😉I use it in our prep station quite a bit and also in the booth sometimes. Works great for me.
It needs at least a 1.4 nozzle. I spray it with a Tekna 1.4 7E7 aircap or a W-400lv 1.4.
I run a little lower pressure than usual. Maybe 18-20 with the w-400 or 20-22 with the Tekna.
It does pretty good with 3 coats. I will usually put a 3rd coat as it is a pretty thin clear. 2 will get it done though just fine. If you are a light sprayer it may take the 3rd to get enough milage.
You can cocktail the fast and slow if needed. The slow is still out of dust pretty quick.
Spray it how you want it to look. I have yet to run the stuff, so you can push it pretty good.
Overall I really love Pro-Air. For it’s intended use it works great for me. I can spray a job on the shop floor and have it turn out as nice as one in the booth.
Thanks Ryan! I am using an LPH400 with a 1.4. Is there a medium hardner or just fast and slow?
Unfortunately there is only fast and slow but you can cocktail them to make medium.Also when it gets warm out It can be tough to spray more than 3 panels even with slow,it is a fast clear.You can also reduce it 10% on larger jobs to make it stay open a little longer.If you are using autobase plus you can use the lesonal reducers in them instead of high performance reducers,they will flash off faster and spray nicer IMHO,any questions about sikkens just ask :cheers
Thanks Jayson! Im sure I will have alot more questions. We are using Auto base plus and the reducer. I will see if they can get us the lesonal reducers. Im not a big fan of the color scalla decks and they way you have to look up them up. Im sure in time I will get it figured out. Also the color build primer is on the slow side.
I love the Color Scala decks. What don’t you like about them? I am on Mixit Pro and looking them up on there is a breeze. The old mixit 2 is slower.
I don’t find the colorbuild slow at all. Are you using colorbuild plus?
Are you reducing your basecoat 50% or 80%?
So far I have been mixing the base 50%. It seems to go on rougher than I would like. I might reduce it down to 80 and see what that does. As far as the color scala, its just different than what Im use to. I just think its strange that the computer gives you a number that you have to go look up on a paper then that paper tells you what deck to use. The few colors I have looked at are scratched up and hard to see. The primer take quite a bit longer to fully drie than sherwin. With sherwin its done in 45 min or 10 with a lamp. Sikkens just takes longer. Im just going to have to just adjusted with it. The other painter there says he has alot of trouble with it shrinking back. I havent noticed it yet but I think I finish my filler out finer than he does too. We are just using the scale to mix on, no PC? Im not sure how to find underhood colors or tu tones and things like that.
Sounds like you are on the old variant deck system,with the new pro the computer (ecco head) will give you a number like gm 28,then you go to the deck and all the variants for that number are right there and they are accurate,basically a bunch of nice color chips on a metal ring.
What are you using,colorbuild plus??If you are they have different activators that will speed or slow them down,the fastest is spot and panel activator=air dry in an 45min to an hr or with a light on it for 20 and you are good to go.
I have seen colorbuild shrink if abused or not stirred/shaken enough. Make sure it is mixed well. Is it Colorbuild Plus?
Autobase Plus likes to go on wetter than Sherwin. I would usually reduce 50% for my first coat, then add more reducer for my last two coats. I would put my first coat on kinda wet. Around 90%. It lays out better that way. If you start out spraying it around 50% wetness it will get a little rough. I could get a lot of colors covered in two coats and use the third for metallic control and insurance.
Not sure about your variants. It tells me the same as Jayson. It tells me which one to look in, I have never had to look at a sheet of paper to figure it out.
Ok guys, on monday I will check to see if its color build pus. Im just not sure. I wish I new the PNs and names of the system better. I have only been there 3 days. As far as looking up a color,…I go to a box next to the scale, I have to put in the make of the vehicle then the code. It wants the year and color group but I just skip that. Then I go to APB and it tells me the what variants there are and it says something lik PRO and a number like 003. So now I have to go to a cabinet on the wall full of the chips with rings. There is a piece of paper taped to it. This is where I have to find the 003. This will then tell me what deck to look in. Thanks for all the help so far. Im sure I will have alot more questions for you guys as you seem very knowlegeable with the system.
Jayson and Ryan, Its Colorbuild Plus that we are using, I sprayed some stuff today and better luck with the base going down. Also, I mixed my clear using a 50-50 mix of fast and slow hardner and used medium reducer at 10% It looked alot better. Im just hoping it will look as good tomorrow. I know this is going to sound crazy but there is no heat on this booth. They use a propane heater to heat it and after its painted it goes back in. As soon as the heater goes in they shut the booth off. Could lack of air movement and the heat on this clear cause the die back? This stuff is all new to me, Im used to spraying in a 6yr old downdraft spaybake.
[quote=”Underpaid Painter” post=16336]Jayson and Ryan, Its Colorbuild Plus that we are using, I sprayed some stuff today and better luck with the base going down. Also, I mixed my clear using a 50-50 mix of fast and slow hardner and used medium reducer at 10% It looked alot better. Im just hoping it will look as good tomorrow. I know this is going to sound crazy but there is no heat on this booth. They use a propane heater to heat it and after its painted it goes back in. As soon as the heater goes in they shut the booth off. Could lack of air movement and the heat on this clear cause the die back? This stuff is all new to me, Im used to spraying in a 6yr old downdraft spaybake.[/quote]
As far as I know, yes, that could cause die-back. I would play with the hardeners (depending on job size) and let it dry at room temp…even if that means leaving the booth run till its out of dust, then shutting it down and opening the doors to get heat in from the shop (can’t say I would be too comfortable with propane heaters). What is the temp. in there? What is your bosses view on the die back (do they accept the jobs like that there, or want them redone)? If you wind up having issues are they willing to let you try a different clear?
I worked with a similar booth for a while and when it was -40 out you couldn’t get any shop heat into the booth. Generally if it was below freezing outside it was very hard to paint and took a long time for it to flash/dry. Hard not to run it in those conditions. We were using Dupont there and I had 3 clears with a variety of reducers, activators and some accelerator just to make it work. Die back wasn’t usually too big of an issue, however, but there was a noticeable (to us professionals) difference in gloss/depth depending on the particular conditions.
Yes the propane heater scares me too! A new shop expansion is in the works and the booth will be getting heat and bake cycle added. They were using auto clear3 but kept having problem due to no bake cycle. Its usally about 70 -80 in the booth from shop heat but the Pro air even with fast hardner and fast reducer wont drie fast enough. The shop does quite a bit of work and needs to paint 2 to 3 cars a day. With out the heat that cant be done. I have been spraying sherwin for the last 10 years and its hard to beat the speed of it. IMO, HPC15 hands down outperforms the Pro Air by along shot. As soon as we get heat on the booth we will get away from the Pro Air.
now thats interesting
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