Ben Hart
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Jayson has given some great advice. Just one thing to note, RM recommends the 200 micron filter for their waterborne, iirc.
In regards to spraying too wet, the answer is probably yes.
Wet coats allow the metallics to float around and move where they want (mottling). Dry coats put the metallic where the gun sprays them. They can’t move. But, dry coats also create gritty base that is hard to clear over and gives poor adhesion. Base is generally sprayed in the middle with medium to medium wet coats. Then the orientation coat is backed up a little from there. If your coverage coats are super wet and mottly, an orientation coat may not be enough to fix it.
Keep in mind with Jimmos video that not all base coats are sprayed the same. The proper method for DuPont Cromax would screw up almost any other base coat…
I think there may be some confusion here. An orientation coat is used on metallic and pearl colours as the final colour coat to even out the metallics (prevent mottling and striping). Each paint is slightly different in its procedures. It has many names ( orientation, drop, finesse etc). It is a procedure, not a product. Typically you spray your last coat of colour with reduced pressure and/or increased gun distance. It is applied a little lighter than your coverage coats, and over everywhere you based. If you blended the base, this will extend just a few inches beyond that to help out the blend.
I think the product you are referring to is basecoat blender. It is not a requirement for a blend, but can help in some circumstances. Depending on the product, it may be used as a wet bed before you apply any base, or may be used in your last coat of base ( ie: the orientation coat on metallic/pearl colours), or in some cases sprayed over top of your blend. Check with your paint manufacturer to see how they want it done.
As mentioned, it isn’t always necessary. Some people never use it at all. Are you using a water or solvent base? What sort of a colour are you spraying?
[quote=”Andy T” post=32916][quote=”Ben” post=32914]First we should maybe change some terminology. “Thinner” usually refers to lacquer thinner. “Reducer” is the appropriate term when referring to modern paints (enamels/urethanes).
[/quote]It’s that language thing again 🙂
Richie is from the UK like me and we still use the term “thinners” almost universally over here. I try to remember to use the term “reducer” when on here though to avoid confusion. Even more confusing is that what you call lacquer, we call cellulose (in either clear or single stage variants)and we still almost always use the terms “lacquer” when we really mean clear coat 😆
Apart from that I agree with everything you said.
Rich – the long and the short is that your supplier could well be right. Some paint companies do use a range of universal thinners / reducers that can be used in everything from primers through to base and top coats. It isn’t always the case though, but if your supplier knows his products and says it will work then I’d be inclined to take his advice :)[/quote]
Why do people from Great Britian have to muddy up the English language? :lol
Fish eye eliminator can be a band aid fix to help you until you figure it out. Most fish eye eliminator contains silicon, and that can result in you possibly needing it in the future. I have used some before without I’ll effects later.
One option that may work is to use the silicon free fish eye eliminator. I know off hand that DuPont has one. It is not as potent as the stuff with silicon.
In any case, if the fisheyes are bad enough, no amount of fish eye eliminator will cure your problem.
You’ll need to follow the clues to find out where they are coming from. If they are all over every job it is probably from the booth or gun/air hose. When you get them, can you see any contamination (a small spec in the centre of the fish eye). When you spray, do you get fish eyes right away in the first cost or do they appear in later coats?
Do you have a piston type compressor? Is it possibly blowing oil by? Is there anything you’ve changed where it may be coming for yourself ( fabric softener, cologne etc can potentially cause fish eyes)?
First we should maybe change some terminology. “Thinner” usually refers to lacquer thinner. “Reducer” is the appropriate term when referring to modern paints (enamels/urethanes).
Reducers contain a mix of solvents to change its potantcy drying speed etc. some reducers may have a little resin in them, and some are reactive/ activated (contain the hardener). Substituting one for the other that is activated will result in complete failure at some point. Substituting one for another that is just a blend of solvents could affect the drying times ( even if both are medium) adhesion, durability, metallic control and may even cause a reaction with with paint or substrate.
With that said, it is always best to refer to the tech sheet for your product. In some paint lines the reducer for the base coat may be the same as the reducer for the clear cost and/or single stage topcoat. Everyone is different, so always be sure to check and use the right stuff… It DOES make a difference.
I am not too familiar with that school. I did my apprenticeship training in Calgary at SAIT. If you are thinking of moving between BC and Alberta, I suggest doing your entire training in 1 province. Although both provinces train towards the Red Seal Interprovincial certification, the orientation of the Technical training is quite different. You will find wages generally higher in Alberta, especially around Calgary, Edmonton and Fort Mac. You will also probably find the pace a little more demanding in these areas. I am involved with the Apprenticeship Board for the Calgary area, if ther is anything I can help you with let me know.
Also, in regards to your earlier question about finding a job as a painter:
You need to keep in mind that there are multiple positions in the shop (painter, body man, prepper). An apprentice usually starts prepping (and possibly detailing, sweeping floors etc). You will not progress to any body work or paint unless your employer has real confidence in you. And when you do, it will usually be baby steps as you go. It could be years before you are trusted in the booth to paint or start doing large body repairs and structural work. Your body portion will initially be limited to changing small parts ( bumpers, fenders etc) and repairing small dents.
Once you’ve had a few years at it, most people lean towards either body or paint. Not a lot if people do both. Even after completing your apprenticeship you may still not be quit skilled enough to be left completely alone as the shops painter or full body man. There are so many things to this trade that it takes a long time to become quick at producing quality work. With overhead and materials so high, mistakes can be very costly. Earning trust and respect comes very slowly.
With that said, most shops have about 2-4 body men per painter. So it is sort of easier to get a job as a bodyman than a painter. Especially when your experience is limited. Prepper a on the other hand generally are hard to come by and may be in higher demand. It is hard to find a really good reliable prepper, and most prepper a want to become a painter or bodyman, so when they get good at prepping they move on…
I hope this helps you understand things a bit better.
[quote=”martinMK” post=32806]Getting a bit hot on the discussion.. I am not here to blame or to defend companies.. but do you think that a company can get an ISO and TUV certificate if they copy/paste guns from Sata..
They had ongoing R&D for 8 years I believe..
Maybe the design is alike Sata..
Don’t judge book by its covers..[/quote]
As for the Iso and tub stuff…it’s made in China. They may not be real. I know of some Chinese knock off paint booths here that were supposed to be great and certified. Turned out that the city inspectors looked into the booths certification and it was counterfeit. The booths had to be disassembled and possibly sold for scrap. Appearantly the Chinese manufacturer wouldn’t do anything when confronted and wouldn’t take the booths back…
…just saying
Hi Marty, welcome to the site.
I’m sorry to hear about your car, that must have been very frustrating. As for the repair, if you do not have any autobody experience, the necessary tools and access to a paint booth, then you may be better off having a reputable shop do the repair. If you have a comprehensive plan on your insurance policy, this damage may be covered.
This would be a very difficult job for a novice to get right. The tools and materials needed would be quite expensive. If you do have some experience, please share with us. Also, if you have photos that would be a great help. I assume the panels will need to be repaired and repainted. However, if the scratches are really minor and not through the clearcoat, you may be able to polish them out. Unfortunately this is rarely the case with vandalism.
It obviously looks like they copied SATA and Devilbiss pretty blatantly. I am sure they’ve violated many international copyright laws and patents…China is possibly one of the few countries they can legally get away with manufacturing them in. Lol
With that said, if they copied the guns close enough, then they probably spray fine. I’d be concerned about the quality of materials and service life/parts avaluability.
Lastly, the website makes the guns look/sound great. But I wouldn’t trust a single word of anyone who so blatantly copied other companies products. That kinda irks me…
Nothing wrong with the rain. As always, if it is humid (especially if its warm) watch for water in the compressed air.
[quote=”xtremekustomz” post=32791]I’m finishing with 500. I probably be using a sealer before the basecoats go on. How would you go about doing it? The bed should be as straight as it can get. There are no dents or dings in it.[/quote]
As far as the priming goes, I would either prime it once, block it straight starting with 220-320 then work up to 400-500. Then seal it. Or if not sealing it, prime it the 2nd time and go from 400-600 with that.
I assume there was a problem with the existing paint, other wise I wouldn’t have bothered stripping
You are making a bigger job of it than I would, but you will get good results your way. Your 11″ block is fine, but you could use as long of a block you feel necessary.
Ultinately you are just ensuring the paint edges/grinding marks are straight, the panel should already be completely straight (at least as straight as any stamped sheet metal is).
If you wind up priming a second time, you may want to initially cut the primer with 320-400. 500 may be a rad fine to start with. Are you finishing with 500 or going to 600?
What you are doing will work well. You are making a bigger job of it than I would, but you should net great results in the end.
You can use as long of a block as you want, but what you have should be plenty good
If whatever is left is in good condition (good adhesion, no chips, no pitting) and is feathered out decently than it is good. Just make sure that after you prime it, you block it straight so any of that profile won’t show through.
More importantly, watch that you don’t strip off much of the zinc coating from the bare metal. That is like a galvanized coating and can help prevent corrosion.