ryan brown
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Jayson, I use the Sikkens Epoxy EP. I think they recommend the Autocoat LV Epoxy. They only want you using it that way for burn-throughs to metal. Not using it as a full fledged sealer. They told me water doesn’t like going straight over epoxy that much. Said chemical adhesion isn’t good. The key is over-reducing it with SRA. Works fast.
Too be honest though I end up sealing most everything. Most cars I paint usually have a new panel or bumper cover with them anyway. On ones that don’t the chances the bodyman put the right shade of sealer on, prepper didn’t leave blocking scratches or burn the sh!t out of every edge is very rare! I am just used to sealing. Colorbuild plus is a very fast sealer anyway and doesn’t really slow me down very much. If I was trying to get 1-2 more cars out of the booth a day sealing might become a pita.
Jimmo, the key to using the epoxy for cut-throughs is over-reducing it with clearcoat blender. At least with Sikkens and Dupont. It puts on a nice very thin wet coat that the edges melt right in. Flashes fast. Just dust it on lightly and it is done in a couple minutes. It could be done on the shop floor easily. I always use an old SRI for it. On days where I have a bunch of small jobs that should not require sealing this is the method I use. It would be nice if they would develop an aerosol just for this purpose, but no such luck at this point. :unsure:
Lild, a burn-through from fresh clear to old substrate shouldn’t lift with anybodys water. I would not seal that ever. Hell water will do a better job of holding it down than any solvent product. I was only talking about bare metal spots.
Hey if they are telling you it’s ok, go for it. All I have heard is not too.
[quote=”MoCoke” post=15535]well it sort of flows out okay, but needs to be sanded, you can wet sand it pretty nicely after about a half hour and its a lot cheaper then these aerosal primers. there is one company now that i think about it called spray max which does make a 2k aerosal primer or you make it and charge it up not sure how it goes something like Rat suggested[/quote]
There is no way that charging up an aresol can with 2K would be cost effective. It will harden once activated, ruining the material inside and the can. It would be good for use on 1 maybe 2 cars.
The reason epoxy is recommended is the pot-life is so long. Urethane sealers have a pot-life of maybe 2 hours max. Epoxy is at least 8 hours usually. Mix up once a day and done.
They only recommend sealing new panels or over bare metal. If you have a repaired panel with primer the only reason you need to seal is if there are too deep of a sand scratch, correct undercoat color or if there are cut-throughs to metal. If the scratches are in line with what basecoat can handle you can go straight to base.
With that said I like sealing what I can. I can start off with a deeper scratch for better mechanical adhesion. My basecoat will also have chemical adhesion underneath and on top. Basecoat will always be your weakest link in a paintjob. Chemical adhesion will always trump mechanical. Therefore imo sealing leads to a longer lasting repair as you benefit from both mechanical and chemical adhesion starting from the bottom.
This is just my opinion on this btw. There are alot of ways to skin a cat.
He needs it for a sealer. Just blow it on, let sit for 5-10 and go on with basecoat.
The spreadable sounds cool, but for a small cut through re-priming might be kinda slow. Can you use that primer as a sealer. As in not sanding it and being able to spray right over it?
[quote=”MoCoke” post=15528][quote=”timbo” post=15526]early morning mix of epoxy sealer is the ticket… :clappy[/quote]
your still mixing, masking, spraying, cleaning the gun…throwing away unused product.[/quote]
no masking and cleaning a gun that was just used to blast a little epoxy only takes a few seconds. still faster than having to redo one from using a spray can primer. Keep it mixed up in a disposable cup. It’s pretty damn simple really.
Water won’t stick very good to bare metal. The manufactuers say not to put spray can primers or etch underneath. Sounds like there are only a few options there guys. Lets not major in a minor. I know why Jimmo was asking because mixing a little sealer for every job just for a couple little burn throughs is wasteful and time consuming. If your not production painting it doesn’t matter.
I’m not one to put something underneath my base that they tell me not too. Just because it may work in the short term and leave the shop doesn’t mean that it will last out on the road. Sh!t I can not sand a car before painting it and get it to leave the shop, but that doesn’t mean I did a good job on it or it will last.
Also just because something hasn’t burned you yet doesn’t mean that it won’t. What if say in two years all the jobs start coming back, how big of a fuking mess would that be. The paint companies give you guidelines for a reason. It’s not so they sell more sealer, it’s to give you a repair that lasts.
I’m sure most companies will end up coming out with a 1K product for use under waterborne basecoat but as of now most don’t. If I’m not mistaken I think there are some in Europe as Paintpot was saying.
Not supposed to put waterborne basecoat over etch.
I’m pretty sure Jimmo is talking about bare metal break throughs.
I still like my idea better
:rofl
I do not tint most colors. I rarely tint when I am blending. Every so often I have to give it a small adjustment.
I can usually get by without tinting on panel painting bumpers . I can find a variant that works most of the time, if not it gets blended.
I hate tinting with a passion so I try to avoid it at all costs.
With Autowave I usually dont have to make a sprayout when blending. Look at the variant chips, pick one and spray.
720 isn’t my favorite but I didn’t have any issues with it. Still looks good. I have sprayed alot of Sherwin clears though. They are a little different to spray. For what it costs though it is a good deal.
Some 3M lasts longer than Norton/Carbo and vice versa. From what I have used
Blue Norton works better than the purple 3M in P320-P400 if not using self-vac
P500 just pick one about the same
3M purple lasts longer than Norton champagne in P600-P800
Norton dry ice/ carbo (?) lasts longer than 3M white in P1000-P1500
The multi-air kinda sucks imo. 3M purple is better for self vac.
I use a mixture of both, whatever paper works better in the specific grade is the one I use. I tend to stick with Mirka scuff pads also. They are hands down better than the other two. A more even faster cut and last long.
I would use Nason 465 before I would ever use Rubber Seal. If your jobber has Spies do they get Nason?
If so use Spies reducer in it instead of the Nason reducer, which is crap.
What I have used that I likes was Acme FC720, U-tech 4.0 select, and the Nason 465.
I usually go for the brunettes with fake boobs and a tramp stamp! 😉
[quote=”Ben” post=15436]With PPG and DuPont I have used many different aerosol primers under water base. Mostly the DuPont and PPG self etching primers, though.
Obviously there are better products, but for small burn throughs and the odd unseen part (like a small repair on a rad support) it has worked very well.
Have you actually tried it with the Onyx?[/quote]
Dupont and Sikkens both say not too. It will fail in the long run. I would stay away from them. The epoxy works very good and you don’t have to sand it. Just mix in the morning, over reduce and use to hit bare metal spots before paint all day. Easy enough.