ryan brown
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Here are a couple of pics of my own car I sprayed with Cromax. The pictures were taken from my Blackberry so the quality isn’t great.
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Bondoking, The shop I work at is in the highlands. I don’t know how much you know about the area but everyone in the area is pretty eco-friendly people. It won’t be mandated for years. Don’t knock it till you try it. I absolutely love it so far. The color match seems better and Duponts covers in 1 and a half coats. Even without any venturies it flashes pretty quick in a booth.
I used a new clear from Dupont called 74500 Chromapremier Pro. It’s a 15min bake at 160. I am pretty sure it’s a Spies Hecker clear as it smells just like all the Spies clears. The paintcode was 3K4 and it’s usually a very poor covering color. I only had 1.5 coats of color on it with waterborne. It came out with a few more nibs in it than I would’ve liked but I had these portable dryers I was luggung around the booth which I am sure didn’t help.
Also if you look close at the right fender you will notice a slickness indicator gauge by the headlight. It’s this new revolutionary method I have a patent pending on. It lets you know when you have got it slick enough!:lol:
Ding, I do not like Duponts basecoat at all. It just flat out sucks at coverage. It does blend very well and has good mottle control. They have some nice clears and primers though. My shop is switching to waterborne next week, so my coverage issue should be fixed.
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I outline everything with a piece of 3/4 tape that has the edge folded over and lay my 6” paper to that. There is a machine you can buy that folds the tape for you, we have one at work but I usually just do it by hand.
That is the website that sells the machine. If anyone is interested I could probably put together some pics or a video of how to do it by hand. There is also a few tricks to using the tape this way. It’s the same principal as the 3M transition tape but alot cheaper , easier to work with and produces an invisible edge.
Good looking job!
Just curious, what brand of paint do you spray and what guns do you use? I always find it interesting what items are popular in other countries.
I really like that video Jimmo. You did a very good job giving a basic overview of what a repair looks like. BTW I saw ODG video on 101 and I thought there is no way that can work. The next day I ordered some Super-duty and did a test similar to what you did and got the same poor results you did. I didn’t want to bash the guy or anything but that has got to be the worst buffing method I have ever seen in my life.
Bondoking, you are going to laugh your ass off at this. I live and work in Louisville. I remember this kid coming into my work for an estimate a few months ago. I remember having the conversation with him about blending and hidden damage. He didn’t want to hear any of it. I told him I wouldn’t consider not blending down the side. He was a real nice guy, I think he was in a bit of a bind though. I remember when he left I commented that I hope we didn’t get the job because I could see it going to shit. I feel for you on this one. I don’t think our estimate was 8000 but I can’t remember.
You will probably need a porta-power to fix the A-post. Once you get the gap opened up if you have a stud gun weld a row of pins and try to pull a section at a time and you can probably get it out. I think I priced sectioning in part of an used A-pillar if I can remember correctly. That windshield has to come out. Good luck neighbor!
Hey Jimmo, I have heard the same thing as you about leaving the gun wide open for proper atomization and mil thickness. I had our rep leave his mil gauge with me for 2 weeks and I did a few different tests. I had to paint both sides of a car, on one side I left the gun wide open and on the other side I dialed it in a little. The end result after baking was that the side I dialed in looked a bit better and had the exact same amount of clear on it as the side I left wide open. I really don’t understand why other than with it being wide open it was letting more solvent get on the panel? If you can get a hold of a mil gauge from a rep they are fun to play with.
The reason it won’t pinch is because with solvent basecoat there is more film build with bigger gaps in between the molecules of paint . All of the solvent in the base doesn’t escape before you clear it. As the clear dries it pulls the surface tight at the edges while the basecoat is still gassing. Therefore the surface will take the shape of the basecoat surface which it now a little rough. With water once all the water is out it is done for good. At least this is the way it was explained to me. I hope I didn’t butcher it too much. If you have a rep who has dealt with water much they should be able to explain this better than me.
I figured I should update and let everyone know how it turned out. My solvent still has a bit of a pinch, but my rep is now saying that Dupont just does that and I can’t do anything about it. I was told i’m being to picky. To solve the problem he brought in some Cromax Pro for me to try. If anyone is scared of water or thinks that you won’t like it you are wrong! It has to be the easiest stuff I have ever sprayed. I can get a red metallic like Toyota 3K4 to cover in 1.5 coats. It sprays on pretty chunky and wet but you just have to let it do its’ thing. It will dry down pretty smooth, not as smooth as Sikkens Autowave, but smooth. There is no dieback after clearing because once water is dry it is dry and creates a barrier. I loved it and can’t wait to use it. There are some things you have to get use to and I will list some. Also I got a chance to spray Sikkens waterborne and i’ll give a write-up on it later.
Your panel has to be EXTREMELY clean!
If it fisheyes you only have one chance to try and bridge it with Dupont before you have to seal it and start over. Sikkens is more forgiving.
It can blush a little and look weird where you blend but it goes away with clear
A blind monkey could blend it. Just pull the gun away with full trigger, fan away or just stop, it really doesn’t matter.
The overspray hitting your arm feels cold, like a mist of cold water. I know imagine that!
It sands great when dry.
There is no chance whatsoever of it lifting
There is no overspray that will tack off, your panel before clear feels smooth as glass
You cannot for any reason spray over a body-line burn through when it’s bare metal, for obvious reasons.
If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask, and thanks to everyone for responding and helping with my question.
MG71, that shocks me he is using a 1.5 nozzle. I would have never thought to use one of that size with a HS clear. I’m guessing the 40psi in and 10 out means he is spraying with the gun at 40 psi and getting 10 at the aircap?
The rep came in yesterday and checked my air lines, booth velocity, and mil thickness and everything was good. The story seems to have changed now to their basecoat being the problem and not me. They are wanting to bring in the Cromax Pro and show it to me next week, they are saying waterbourne will solve the issues we are having.
Thanks for everybody’s help, I will keep everyone updated!
I am using 72500 clear with the 12305 hardener and appropriate reducer for the temp. I have tried the 72200 clear put it was dying on me really badly. It would lay down smooth but after a bake cycle it lost alot of it’s gloss.
MG71, did you like the 72200 clear? Did it hold it’s gloss for you very well?
I have our normal rep coming in tomorrow to bring in a mil guage and check our air lines for contaminants or any moisture.
Thanks Jimmo. Which guns were they pushing and what size nozzle did they recommend? The reps in my work seem to be unhelpful. When I told them I had a problem they just told me what I was doing wrong and didn’t help me fix the problem. After taking their advice the pinching is still there. Now everything is getting a fat urethane peel look to it. I suggested that it was in the basecoat because the ends of my blend panels where there isn’t any color looks fine. They disagreed. This is frustrating because I never had this problem with Standox or Sikkens. Sikkens would shrink back a little on heavy metallic colors because of the basecoat texture but still held a very nice gloss.
I have always done the exact same as you Jimmo, but now i’m told I am wrong. They said I should set the air at the wall high and adjust at the gun. They all recommend Satas so I don’t know if the guns would be different or not? I have looked over the aset site and not really come up with anything different than you said. I was just kinda wanting some input from other guys that painted because real world experience counts for more than what a guy says that doesn’t do it day in and day out. I should ad that when I paint I don’t go for a factory peel look I try to make everything as slick as possible. Maybe that is where my problems come from, the reps have the attitude that everything looks good enough but I want to be better than that!