Ben Hart
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[quote=”chumpi” post=23921]I am using 3M platinum filler with blue hardener, universal primer, cheap primer
Let me take this opurtiunity to thank every one responding to my post. Thank you guys.[/quote]Like I said before, use a 2k urethane primer surfacer. Since you are using Nason, try their 421-17 or 421-19. It is very inexpensive and is still a very decent quality. You will NOT have bleed through issues with this stuff. If you are using the Nason 421-30 Universal primer, stop. That is a 1k primer and is junk. If you are in a VOC regulated area and are limited to what you can get (where the 421-19 is not avaliable) use the Nason 421-10 2k urethane.
If you insist on using a 1k primer, you will have issues…
I used a fair bit of Nason.
I would suggest finishing your bodywork in 180-220 on the filler and 320-400 on the painted areas. Use the 421-17 or421-19 2k primer over the repair (3-4 coats). That will fill as good as any other primer surfacer. Also, that primer sands nice and has excellent holdout. I have a feeling you are doing (or not doing) something with regards to the priming.
Weather you are using the b/c or either of the Nason SS, they are all a little transparent, but even with white, should hide decent enough (2-3 coats for the SS and 3-4 for the base).
[quote=”Andy T” post=23908][quote=”ding” post=23861]why the need for a uk based forum when you’ve got global right here :P[/quote]
Oh, you know – product differences and stuff :whistle: It would never live up to this place though :rock
Ben – yes some manufacturers offer a hardener/activator, but I think Nick was just trying to illustrate and explain a particular problem that rears it’s head over here quite a bit, rather than seek a solution for himself.
Personally I’ve not had any of my jobs go that way, but I’ve had to repair plenty that have![/quote]
I haven’t had any issues either, but I have had to repair others, as well. The problem obviously exists, but I wonder if there is a little more to it that the base just not having hardener in it…
[quote=”ding” post=23895]unless the paint is cracked, peeling etc, there is no need to remove it. it can be sanded and painted. if you do want to remove it you either need to sand it all off or use a chemical stripper made for bumpers. either way sucks and is the reason most places will replace the cover if it needs stripping[/quote]
Just as Ding said.
Usually stripping takes so much time (and a fair bit of materials) that a new bumper is more economical. If you do strip, it almost always has to be primed with a good flexible 2k primer surfacer, not just sealed as with a new bumper.
If the bumper you have is good sand/scuff it well, seal then paint it.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=23870]I agree with Jack,air pressure doesn’t do anything to autowave.You can do a drop coat at 17 psi or 24psi it still looks the same.Now the only thing you can do is to not dropcoat it,that will make a difference,the drop coat with waterborne is lighter compared to darker with solvent.
As far as tri-stages I could write a book about them,but here are some ideas.Make sure your ground coat matches first or you are fuked :deadhorse :deadhorse
If time permits after I have my ground coat blended out,I will take 1 part RTS ground coat + 1 part midcoat and mix them together and blend out this mixture to make an even smoother transition(this is taught in akzo’s advanced application course).You also need to do a reverse or staggered blend with your mid coat or else you will have a build up of midcoat making it look darker at the ends of your blend.Also mark your mid coats with a felt marker on the masking paper for a reference so you know where you are at.Your first coat should go to your maximum blend area,2nd coat to your minimum,3rd coat in the middle of coat 1 and 2.You might want to think about leaving tri-stages out all together and just deal with them another night. :cheers[/quote]Come to think of it, you are right. With the Autowave I was dropping pressure for the drop coat, but now I spray at the same pressure as my regular coats. Colour is the same both ways when comparing sprayouts of the same colour. When I first stated out we sprayed mostly Single Stage. With the SS metallics pressure did make a difference. Not sure how sensitive other brands are to pressure, but definitely worth checking out when spraying a different product.
Jayson made a great point about metallics. I would also add that air pressure can be used to lighten/darken the colour like in a drop coat. As well as using a flop controller (if available in your system). Maybe make a note about face and flop, and when you lighten one, you may darken the other.
Otherwise I would just make an emphasis to know how to use any colour charts for your system as well as understanding the 3 dimensions of colour (value, hue and chroma). If you can understand that, then you will understand what adding or removing each toner will do to the colour.
I imagine that is bascally the same problem we have here with stone chips that eventually make the clear peel like crazy around the stone chip (from moisture reabsorbing into the water base coat and lifting the clear).
Several of the paint companies have a hardener for the water base coat that is supposed to prevent this (makes the basecoat less susceptible to absorbing moisture when exposed)
Does your paint manufacturer offer something like this?
[quote=”BadSon23″ post=23779]Since talking tekna here i have a question. The 909 air cap or the 7e7 air cap with a 1.4 for Autowave? Which one?Why? The 909 seems to have a little bigger fan. And since you have to back up so high for orientaion im not sure.Thank you.[/quote]
7e7 is what I use. The 7E7 is the compliant cap, the 909 is HVLP.
[quote=”5LEater” post=23777]yes those are the approximate air pressures of what i spray autowave base with (17-22) clear and single stage (25-27).
I tend to not use the tekna as much anymore for base (no metallics) because there is a 3000 hvlp that I can use for base, and i have heard from a rep that guys have been having problems with golds, silvers (autowave) etc coming out lighter when sprayed through a tekna as apposed to a sata. I havent taken a chance and stick with the 3000 hvlp most of the time and save the two teknas for sealer and clear.[/quote]I spray autowave with a Tekna, the other guy I work with sprays it with a 2000HVLP. Our colours come out pretty much the same. I wonder if those people are using a 1.3 in their Tekans?
[quote=”ding” post=23773][quote=”5LEater” post=23771]i was thinking about a gallon gallon and a quarter unactivated , just to be safe.
smaller car to, foxbody mustang[/quote]
2 qts of polybase would be more than enough[/quote]Most colours in Autowave cover well too, and since you’re using 250 sealer you can get a good colour to cover over. I’d stick with the autowave and then you won’t have any worries about compatibility
When things go bad I love to wash it off with gun wash if possible. Just makes life easier.
Besides, if the bodywork is fine, then you want to use a method that won’t ruin your filler work much.
[quote=”bondomerchant” post=23754][quote=”ding” post=23753][quote=”Jayson M” post=23752]If it hasn’t cured by now you have to strip it,no way around it.[/quote]
I think he was asking what the best way to remove it was :whistle:
Try thinner see if it wipes off
scrape it off
sand it off[/quote]
an if it lasts for more than 4 hrs be sure an call your docter :weights :weights :weights[/quote]Not everyone has the same side effects as you… :whistle:
as these guys said, you need to strip it. Just out of curiousitys sake, how warm was the vehicle when you where applying the primer and after it sat?
[quote=”ryanbrown999″ post=23679][quote=”Danp76″ post=23677]Point makes sense Ryan, I just often wonder how much marketing hype is involved with these products. Some clear is $100 a set-up, others around $400 are they really 4 times better in quality? How much of it is marketing, does it really cost that much to make a clear? I’d love to see a chemical analysis between the top name brand clears vs. the top aftermarkets. I know how things are marked up in industry, wonder if it’s a similar scenario with clear, as we are buying a blind item unless we are chemist with access to an expensive lab…how can we really say one clear is “better” then another unless we are a chemist?[/quote]
What I said in my first post kinda answers this. Raw material vs raw material the cost isn’t going to be as drastic. you lose the warranty, reps, and any support if things went south.
Cost per gallon is a poor comparison. You have to look at cost per sprayable oz and how far it goes.
If you like SPI just use it. What your asking would need to be determined by a third party chemist.[/quote]
Then there is the other end of it…you might find the clear with the best chemicals at the lowest price to be the worst spraying product that is not user friendly, or a little yellow or not have as good of depth…
There are, of course, differences in chemical quality. Most expensive clears have better UV protection, flexibility and sometimes higher solids content among other things. That probably makes it better, but not twice the price.
You have to keep in mind, the cost of all the products in the system not only covers the warranty as mentioned, but also the research into the product, marketing etc. And of course the large cost of paying for the base coat colour matching. I am sure it costs a lot of money matching existing colours and variants as well as keeping up with all the new colours (and variants) from manufacturers around the world.
And as for the warranty, the paint manufacturer may cut you a cheque if there is an issue, but they also provide training and technical support, another expense that you only get using a complete warranted system from a larger company.
[quote=”Red Baron” post=23661]Rumor mill has it that 3M has interest.[/quote]
That would be best…then the cost of paint would triple… :rofl