John
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Stone – You’re not too far off. As it currently stands, you have to paint a panel at a time. It’s not ready for a complete or large jobs yet (but that’s in the near future)
Jimmo – the most honest answer I can give you to some of your questions, particularly longer term questions such as loss of gloss, durability, etc. right now is; I don’t know. HPC15 is very new and I just saw it in use for the first time yesterday. I mean, I know what the *claims* are, but I want to explore those questions with my tech reps and training center people (who have likely had a chance to play with this product for the past 6 months or so).
As for the immediate questions –
No, there is no risk in sanding & polishing in 15 minutes. That’s what it’s supposed to do, and it actually does it. I’m trying to understand how that’s possible if it’s still soft enough to fingerprint, and my best guess right now is PSI. You have a lot of PSI under your fingertip, but with the DA and the buffer, you’re not pushing into it as hard, and they are spreading whatever pressure over a larger area.
Is it harder to polish? Not at all. It sands and polishes great.
How does it spray and lay down? Very nice. Easy to spray (as I feel all our products are). In the demo yesterday, it laid out with no easily perceptible orange peel. He sanded & buffed a portion of the fender, and you could barely tell the difference between the polished and the non-polished areas.
Large or small jobs? Right now, it’s limited to panel painting, but, as I understand, that will be changing in the near future.
I’m wondering what it costs to run a typical booth on a per minute basis, as I see that as being the main advantage right now. The other advantage pointed out to me yesterday was that you only need 1.4 mils on this clear (our other clear, were looking for 2.0). I’m not sure what that translates to, other than perhaps a cost savings on using less clear (but it’s seems you’d need to use quite a bit of clear for .06 mils to make much difference).
As far as getting things done quickly, we have products and a speed process (ESP – Extreme Speed Process)that will get you done about as quickly as it’s likely to get. Our P30 primer with SR15 reducer can be sanded in 15 minutes. As for clear, it sounds like you’re using something similar to our CC931, which can be sanded, buffed and delivered after 7 minutes at 140° + cooldown.
So… since it kind of got buried in there, let me aks this again (if anyone here knows)… do you have any idea what it costs you to run your booth on a per minute (or even per hour) basis? Basically, we’re looking at gas costs (although, I suppose one could also add in filters, wear and tear on the booth, etc.)
You should always put hardener in your basecoat. It makes a *huge* difference in durability (and doesn’t require much).
Some of the main causes of dyeback/dulling are;
1. Topcoat applied in heavy, wet coats.
2. Inadequate flash time between coats.
3. Insufficient film thickness of topcoat color or clearcoat.
4. Insufficient drying/curling of undercoats before applying clear.
5. Using a poor grade and/or too fast evaporating thinner/reducer for spray conditions.
6. Improper cleaning of the substrate.
7. Insufficient air movement during and after application.
8. Spraying over a deteriorated or solvent sensitive substrate finish without proper priming or sealing procedures.http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/reference/troubleshooting_guide/loss_of_gloss/index.cfm
[b]jimmo wrote:[/b]
[quote]In my experience I have found that half the time the reps advice contradicts the paint companies recommendations.[/quote]True enough. I don’t know why people can’t just say “I don’t know. I’ll find out for you.”
[b]bondomerchant wrote:[/b]ive gotten down to the point that i dont beleive half the shit some paint reps tell me:dry: :dry: :dry:[/quote]
Are they providing a warranty? If so, do exactly as the paint company indicates, otherwise – no warranty.
[b]jimmo wrote:[/b]
It is frustrating when they request something like that and don’t bother coming to pick it up. I don’t think they realize how much it can mess up a day for the shop sometimes.[/quote]Thankfully, no one who works in a body shop would do that. They’d never call their parts supplier screaming that they had to have these parts immediately because the car is supposed to be delivered today!!! So, the parts supplier gets someone to drive 100 miles out of their way to make sure this shop gets the parts they need. … and when he shows up at the shop with the pats, the body tech says “We don’t even have that car here yet.”
… but that’s because the parts manager is very smart and shrewd. He knows how to work these suppliers. He knows by lying, he’ll have those parts here so when the car comes in tomorrow morning, the parts are in and it can get done right away.
…and it works real well until the next time he calls that supplier and needs something “Right away”
There is no good method for doing a good clear blend that will last. It’s going to fail eventually.
If you’re repairing to OEM specs, you have to use an etch. If the paint supplier is going to warranty the repair, DTM primer is probably not covered as well.
Sherwin-Williams CC931/CC950
You’re basically attempting to sight match a custom tri-stage. You could easily spend a thousand hours on this and never get it right (or, you could get lucky and nail it right out of the gate). I would certainly talk to the owner of the car to attempt to see if you can get some details on who did this. Then you might be able to find out exactly what was used.
It’s not going to be easy or fun. Might be worth it to send the job elsewhere.
25%? I quit selling parts around 2004, and the “standard” discount then was 32% on all domestic lines, 27% on imports. (This would be in the Chicago area).
I work weekends. I’m in a different boat as I don’t work in a body shop – I run a Sherwin-Williams Automotive store. I started opening on Saturdays because some of my shops were open on Saturdays, so I wanted to be available if the needed anything to get a job done.
Additionally, everyone has my cell number, and it’s posted on the front of the store. Once in a while, I’ll get a call late at night or on a Sunday – someone trying to get something done and ran out of something … I’ll try to work with them to get them what they need.
Other than that, car show season is coming up. I sponsor a local car show, so, every Sunday I spend probably 10 or 12 hours getting to the show, setting up a booth, showing off the hot rod, talking to people…